# Can true Straight Dopers = Pro Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421 "2017-02-09T22:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/101 "2019-07-25T16:18:04Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I have over-estimated the president’s ability to fail upward. I fear I have overestimated the ability for the DNC to do anything about it either. > > I am overwhelmed by being underwhelmed all around. This is a fantastic response. I would upvote the hell out of your reply if I had any understanding of what those young punks are doing on reddit… ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/102 "2019-07-25T16:24:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I doubt there’s anyone (except perhaps the President himself) that “will support everything Trump does and says” and I’m certainly not aware of any posters here on the SDMB that do so. There are certainly a lot of people that support _some_ of what he says and does (and frankly, just about anyone ought to be able to find a few things he has said or done that they can support, even if they disagree with most of his words and actions). But with your response there’s a balance. I’m looking for the people that, for reasons unknown to me [hence why I originally posed] that are not balanced in this regard. There many many many Trump supporters that just fall in line and believe/repeat everything he says. Now, I agree that it could /should not be 100%, but the balance is off when compared to what The Straight Dope is all about. It’s like they have put on a mask when it comes to things Trump does/says, that if applied to the usual hunt for truth/facts here on the SDMB would easily be denounced. And this could be for any president, Trump has just been the biggest one I’ve ever seen in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/103 "2019-07-25T16:44:17Z")
We see again an OP where the claim is made that the Left way is the only right way to think. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/104 "2019-07-25T17:30:10Z")
Don’t think too many people actually hold that specific attitude; seems like a strawman, and an ad hominem to boot. The Right Wing Way being reliably the WORST available Way, OTOH, is probably easier to find in the wild (as well as being more objectively supportable). ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/105 "2019-07-25T18:27:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > We see again an OP where the claim is made that the Left way is the only right way to think. Not at all. If you read through the post, I said that if the republicans had put up anyone but Trump I would have voted for that person instead of Hillary. But, go ahead and let’s even ignore that part. As I said I want to understand another person’s POV that doesn’t agree with mine. I don’t want to tear the person down. So, if you, Saint Cad, are a person who seeks out facts and truths on a regular basis, but choose to ignore those facts when it comes to things Trump says, then I want hear from you. Because I may not agree with you, but I want to understand you… Or you can try to make it a black & white thing as your reply quoted above implies… but you’d be wrong… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/106 "2019-07-25T19:17:02Z")
> [@Frumpy\_Jones](#): > > I came to the site today to look up an old article on VCR+ codes, and found this post I made two years ago. > > I wrote it right after Trump became president and am wondering now how you are all feeling and if the repeated lies (or FAKE NEWS , depending on your POV) has resonated with you. > > For me, I’m still in the mindset that you can support Trump but not agree with, and even call him out, for a lot of the lies and horrible things he says and does. > > But there are many people who decide to believe, support, and repeat his lies when there’s mountains of facts before them… > But I don’t suspect those people can be true Dopers… > … But there has to be some, statistically. > > And I am really trying to seek to understand that person’s viewpoint. > > I don’t want to roast that person, or condemn them. I want to know and understand the “why” behind a person who comes here to debate and seek facts and truth will support everything Trump does and says… In my opinion, it comes down to the ends justify the means mentality. And this is by no means exclusive to Trump supporters. Can those people be so called “true Dopers?” I don’t see why not. It just requires compartmentalizing certain aspects of ideology from a more general outlook. It’s a bit like super devout religious scientists. At some there is a contradiction between faith and reason yet somehow these folks manage to reconcile internally to some degree the disparity. ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/107 "2019-07-25T19:29:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In my opinion, it comes down to the ends justify the means mentality. And this is by no means exclusive to Trump supporters. Can those people be so called “true Dopers?” I don’t see why not. It just requires compartmentalizing certain aspects of ideology from a more general outlook. It’s a bit like super devout religious scientists. > > At some there is a contradiction between faith and reason yet somehow these folks manage to reconcile internally to some degree the disparity. So is it as simple as that, though? Faith? Rabid Trump supporters have so much FAITH in Trump that they are willing to ignore/shun all logical facts and data that show something contradictory to what he just said (Even when HE is contradicting himself)? I’ve never been able to shove logic and reason that much into a box to let my faith prevail (I’m thinking Daffy Duck jamming the Genie back into the lamp screaming MINE MINE MINE but replacing it with FAITH FAITH FAITH and the genie being logic and reason). [https://i.gifer.com/87V.gif](https://i.gifer.com/87V.gif) Perhaps that’s why I’m not able to wrap my head around this one. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/108 "2019-07-25T19:45:58Z")
> [@Frumpy\_Jones](#): > > Perhaps that’s why I’m not able to wrap my head around this one. I think it’s probably related to how you missed the entire point of the post you were responding to and latched onto the word faith. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/109 "2019-07-25T19:46:32Z")
The fallacy of this whole line of thinking as that there is no _True Doper_. ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/110 "2019-07-25T20:16:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I think it’s probably related to how you missed the entire point of the post you were responding to and latched onto the word faith. Faith was more so the possible linchpin that explains the reconciliation that I don’t usually suffer from. Faith may be too strong a word, but it fits. And I’m not knocking anyone’s “faith” (or end justifying the means mentality). I’m just trying to understand it better and Octopus reply really helped with that. ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/111 "2019-07-25T20:22:46Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The fallacy of this whole line of thinking as that there is no _True Doper_. Well, we all are straight dopers if we’re here. 🙂 It goes back to Octo’s reply. You take your “faith” or your “end justifying the means” and that is used as a solvent that wipes away logic and facts that, in any other situation, you would not let it wipe away that easily. I understand faith. And it does fit slightly snugly with filling the gap I was having trouble coming to terms with. I’m just trying to make sure I’m not accepting a convenient answer. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/112 "2019-07-25T21:39:53Z")
> [@Frumpy\_Jones](#): > > Faith was more so the possible linchpin that explains the reconciliation that I don’t usually suffer from. Faith may be too strong a word, but it fits. > > And I’m not knocking anyone’s “faith” (or end justifying the means mentality). I’m just trying to understand it better and Octopus reply really helped with that. The post you were responding to has zero to do with faith. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/113 "2019-07-25T23:09:28Z")
I’m curious. Those of you in this thread who have said you think that Trump is awful but Clinton is worse: what precisely do you think is worse about Clinton? And what were you afraid she would have done if elected? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/114 "2019-07-25T23:14:32Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m curious. > > Those of you in this thread who have said you think that Trump is awful but Clinton is worse: what precisely do you think is worse about Clinton? And what were you afraid she would have done if elected? If someone is pro-life, for instance, Hillary would most definitely have nominated pro-choice justices to SCOTUS, and acted in a far more pro-choice way than Trump. If someone is pro-traditional marriage, Hillary would definitely be far more pro-SSM/LGBT. On 90% of issues, Hillary would have taken the more liberal stance, if one is conservative. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/115 "2019-07-26T00:47:00Z")
> [@Frumpy\_Jones](#): > > …For me, I’m still in the mindset that you can support Trump but not agree with, and even call him out, for a lot of the lies and horrible things he says and does… The only thing similar that I can think of is an abused person not leaving their abuser. There are others of course. People that refuse to admit they where wrong. Others that would only like to see others worse off than themselves as a way to ‘elevate’ themselves. If they can make others worse off than they are, they must be doing better. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/116 "2019-07-26T01:56:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If someone is pro-life, for instance, Hillary would most definitely have nominated pro-choice justices to SCOTUS, and acted in a far more pro-choice way than Trump. > > If someone is pro-traditional marriage, Hillary would definitely be far more pro-SSM/LGBT. > > On 90% of issues, Hillary would have taken the more liberal stance, if one is conservative. But those are, and were at the time, pretty standard Democratic positions. And while there are indeed some people who for those reasons wouldn’t vote for any Democrat, there are others who seem to instead have been vehemently opposed to Clinton in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/117 "2019-07-26T02:44:26Z")
> [@](#): > > I like to think that, for the most part, we, the dopers, have a thing for seeking facts and truth and making as informed a decision as we can (With some subjectiveness tossed in). I like to think that, for the most part, you, the dopers, have a thing for believing that you are always right, and only accepting opinions that agree with your own. (With some objectiveness tossed in) In other words, fairly human, and when it gets too irritating, I can always go and do something else. So I do spend very little time in Elections or Great Debates. And I’m not even pro-Trump. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/118 "2019-07-26T03:19:33Z")
> [@Frumpy\_Jones](#): > > But with your response there’s a balance. I’m looking for the people that, for reasons unknown to me [hence why I originally posed] that are not balanced in this regard. … I’d politely suggest to you that the SDMB is not a good place to encounter such people, if they exist at all (a claim towards which I’m deeply skeptical). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/119 "2019-07-26T03:23:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m curious. > > Those of you in this thread who have said you think that Trump is awful but Clinton is worse: what precisely do you think is worse about Clinton? And what were you afraid she would have done if elected? I missed where people said that in this thread, but it’s close enough to my own feelings on the matter that I feel it’d be appropriate to respond: I was concerned she might start a war with Russia, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421/120 "2019-07-26T06:17:28Z")
I think that in general you can believe in facts and objectivity but also have a strong bias in a particular area that makes you interpret all data through a lens. Think of someone like Ben Shapiro. He claims that objectivity is important, but when it comes to…well, quite a lot of issues actually, he clearly starts with a conclusion and tries to cherry pick data to fit it, ignoring all else. And also engages in a number of rhetorical tricks. It’s interesting to speculate on the degree to which he is self-aware of this. I don’t want to hijack the thread to be about BS (interesting his initials match a common abbreviation…); I’m just trying to give an example of the psychology where someone could generally embrace facts and logic but have a huge blind spot(s). There is a very strong correlation between support for Trump and hostility to immigration. So I am sure someone with that feeling could handwave most of the false facts trump says about immigration and find some true stat that hispanics are disproportionately more likely to X, and run with it. Claim that Trump is right for the wrong reasons, essentially. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-true-straight-dopers-pro-trump/779421.md?page=7)