# Can Trump Make Deals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474 "2017-03-18T13:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/22 "2017-03-19T01:09:15Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > So … maybe Trump is just pretending to be abysmally stupid in order to trick everybody, and will make awesome deals. > > or… by pretending to be dumb, he has turned dumb (because that happens mostly in the real world. “One of the major difficulties Trillian experienced in her relationship with Zaphod was learning to distinguish between him pretending to be stupid just to get people off their guard, pretending to be stupid because he couldn’t be bothered to think and wanted someone else to do it for him, pretending to be outrageously stupid to hide the fact that he actually didn’t understand what was going on, and really being genuinely stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/23 "2017-03-19T01:52:09Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The only real talent Trump has is self promotion. He has parlayed that into a huge business and winning the presidency. He does not seem to be skilled at anything else. > > However he has connected with the conservative base in ways I haven’t seen anyone do before. He’s a sociopath–he’s one of their own. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/24 "2017-03-19T01:59:49Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > He’s a sociopath–he’s one of their own. How many sociopaths do you believe there are in this country? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/25 "2017-03-19T02:03:44Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > We have as much proof as we have for the other billionaires - for example, being included in the Forbes 500 richest. You can’t possibly think that everyone else is that stupid. For many many people we know how much stock they own in publicly traded companies and how much it’s worth. There’s nothing analogous for Trump > [@](#): > > At the time Trump was just starting out (and got that “small loan” of $1M from his father), his father was maybe worth $30-40M tops, AFAIU. > > Today, there are about 70,000 people worth $30M+ in the US. There are 540 billionaires in the US. > > There are a lot of people worth $30M+. People worth multiple billions are very rare. So you’d have to explain how it is that very few of the $30-40M people can make multiple billions if you think it is so easy to do. Time value of money… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/26 "2017-03-19T02:49:47Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > You can’t possibly think that everyone else is that stupid. For many many people we know how much stock they own in publicly traded companies and how much it’s worth. There’s nothing analogous for Trump > > Time value of money… There’s more to it than that, as well. [Trump’s false claim he built his empire with a ‘small loan’ from his father](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.644cfd334f00) ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/27 "2017-03-19T15:40:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How many sociopaths do you believe there are in this country? At least 62,984,825. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/28 "2017-03-19T15:43:28Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > At least 62,984,825. - Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/29 "2017-03-19T15:45:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > - Donald Trump. Presumably, he voted, and for himself, so he’s included in that count. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/30 "2017-03-19T15:46:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > You can’t possibly think that everyone else is that stupid. For many many people we know how much stock they own in publicly traded companies and how much it’s worth. There’s nothing analogous for Trump There’s quite a bit “analogous” for Trump. Fortune didn’t just put him in the list because they liked him. His list of holdings is well known, the buildings he owns have market value, they can be added up. What can be disputed is the “brand” value. That is what the $3B vs $10B argument is based on. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/31 "2017-03-19T15:51:21Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > At the time Trump was just starting out (and got that “small loan” of $1M from his father), his father was maybe worth $30-40M tops, AFAIU. > > Today, there are about 70,000 people worth $30M+ in the US. There are 540 billionaires in the US. > > There are a lot of people worth $30M+. People worth multiple billions are very rare. So you’d have to explain how it is that very few of the $30-40M people can make multiple billions if you think it is so easy to do. A sizable chunk of Trump’s self-reported billions comes from Trump’s own valuation of the Trump name. Other accounting methods may yield somewhat different results. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/32 "2017-03-19T15:54:32Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There’s quite a bit “analogous” for Trump. Fortune didn’t just put him in the list because they liked him. His list of holdings is well known, the buildings he owns have market value, they can be added up. > > What can be disputed is the “brand” value. That is what the $3B vs $10B argument is based on. Why are you so vested in Trump’s personal wealth valuation? Are you a creditor? Does he owe you money? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/33 "2017-03-19T16:03:34Z")
Clearly Trump has protected his inherited wealth and created value for the Trump brand. The issue here is whether or not those skills transfer to the current political arena. So far, Trump has had some success at issuing edicts in the form of Executive Orders - unilateral actions. No deal was involved. He does not seem to be doing well in dealing with establishment Republicans and definitely not with Democrats. Then there’s the Intelligence community. A true ‘deal’ requires co-operation among two or more factions. It’s not a matter of the top dog exercising dealers choice. Is he really a deal maker or is that just Trump brand puffery? Crane ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/34 "2017-03-19T18:01:28Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > We have as much proof as we have for the other billionaires - for example, being included in the Forbes 500 richest. That is simplly not true, it is repeating a falsehood of a Trump like nature. But since you did not understand the usage of the limited liaibility in business, it is not a surprise you have been duped into this repetitoin. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > You can’t possibly think that everyone else is that stupid. For many many people we know how much stock they own in publicly traded companies and how much it’s worth. There’s nothing analogous for Trump > … it is the reptiation of the agitatation and propaganda he has read > [@Okrahoma](#): > > There’s quite a bit “analogous” for Trump. Fortune didn’t just put him in the list because they liked him. His list of holdings is well known, the buildings he owns have market value, they can be added up. In fact, no, as the holdings are not clear as what amount of the equity the organization retains, and the real estate valuation itself is best against the recent comparables. So no it is not at all like it at all, and like the past comments about the bankruptcy you betray you have no actual understandings and are engaging in repetition. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/35 "2017-03-19T18:12:20Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > A true ‘deal’ requires co-operation among two or more factions. It’s not a matter of the top dog exercising dealers choice. > > Is he really a deal maker or is that just Trump brand puffery? > > Crane There is little sign in his operational track record that he has the great capacity in the management of th complex operating organizations - the cases of where he has had tries in the management of the complex operating company he has been a great failure where peers were successful in the same business cycle, the airliines, the casinos. Without the examination in public of the actual cash flows and the actual long term develpopment of the licensing and the franchising it is impossible to have a strong opinion if the franchsing deals he does now are good or not, but it is of course a different thing than to make the operational company expansion. It is the rental value of riding his bomabastic marketing. The results of his bankruptcies do not suggest he is very good at the negotiations, he overpays for the shiny things that attract him, he neglects the long-term development… It suggests the world leaders that flatter him will be able to rush him into the deals that will not be very good for your national interests. This is the pattern well attested to in his track record. But it is certain he will be able to sell it to his target audience, as the evidence here shows. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/36 "2017-03-19T18:34:39Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > There is little sign in his operational track record that he has the great capacity in the management of th complex operating organizations - the cases of where he has had tries in the management of the complex operating company he has been a great failure where peers were successful in the same business cycle, the airliines, the casinos. > > Without the examination in public of the actual cash flows and the actual long term develpopment of the licensing and the franchising it is impossible to have a strong opinion if the franchsing deals he does now are good or not, but it is of course a different thing than to make the operational company expansion. It is the rental value of riding his bomabastic marketing. > > The results of his bankruptcies do not suggest he is very good at the negotiations, he overpays for the shiny things that attract him, he neglects the long-term development… > > It suggests the world leaders that flatter him will be able to rush him into the deals that will not be very good for your national interests. > > This is the pattern well attested to in his track record. > > But it is certain he will be able to sell it to his target audience, as the evidence here shows. Astute. Bravo. QED: [Trump golf courses losing millions.](http://www.golfdigest.com/story/donald-trumps-scottish-golf-courses-have-lost-over-dollar30-million-accounts-reveal-united-states-fec-filing-discrepancies) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/37 "2017-03-19T18:41:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > …The man’s not fit to shovel shit from one place to another. Well, not with those tiny hands, certainly. The plastic child’s beach trowel that he can hold won’t last more than a few dozen scoops. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I’d say it’s his ability to promise the moon with absolute sincerity. Until he turns around and refuses to fulfill those promises, and uses his power to do whatever he can to squash any kind of dissent or redress. > > Problem is, that doesn’t work with world leaders. They’ve probably been there, done that themselves, and aren’t about to accede to his demands just because he’s The Donald. Furthermore, world leaders like Angela Merkel, Theresa May, and (ugh) Vladimir Putin aren’t going to be intimidated by threats of legal action. Each has their own unique way of responding–Putin with scheming and testing, May with barely concealed scorn, Merkel with open deescalation and patiently ignoring Trump’s childish behavior while giving his daughter cryptic side looks in full view of the media–but Trump’s normal “Art of the Deal” bullshit dominance plays are just not useful or appropriate here. Nor is his attempts to blame foreign allies for his own baseless allegations or delegitimize critics and judges obstructing his attempt at bald overreach in executive power. His theatrics and repetitive bombast that were so popular with his supports are the antithesis of what is needed to negotiate the world stage, and while other presidents have personally fumbled in some of these areas, they have at least selected advisors and Cabinet members with sufficient expertise to provide leadership of a kind in his locum. Trump has none of this; he is surrounded by “Yes Men” (and women) who stoke his ego while Steve Bannon guides a radical right wing agenda; his top Cabinet picks are almost all either terminally incompetent, deeply conflicted, or neglected; he has failed to populate the critical second tier of deputies and executive decision-makers, leading to stoppage and ambiguity in government functions; and in general, has focused on pointless horseshit like the alleged fraud in the popular vote, number of people attending his inauguration, commenting on television ratings for his reality television show, attempting to undermine the “failing _New York Times_” and other news outlets in retaliation for printing factual information and critical opinion pieces, doing “victory tours” to fan his ego and reiterate his intent to build a wall that nobody associated with actually wants, and pressing this ill-concieved Muslim [Not A] Ban from countries which have not actually presented a threat to domestic terrorism. > [@Alessan](#): > > We’ve seen no proof that Trump has ever been a billionaire. We have, on the other hand, seen plenty of evidence of his unscrupulous dealing, financial failures, and outright fraud. From his tendency to shameless self-promotion we might assume that were he actually a billionaire he’d not only publish those tax returns, he’d bring them up in every public discussion with the media just like he brings up his supposed popular vote victory and alleged wiretapping. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The only real talent Trump has is self promotion. He has parlayed that into a huge business and winning the presidency. He does not seem to be skilled at anything else. > > However he has connected with the conservative base in ways I haven’t seen anyone do before. However did he do that intentionally? I don’t know, I don’t know if he tried to connect with them or if it just happened because he is on the same wavelength as them. Trump is, at essence, a huckster and an outsider to the inner circle of wealth and power. As such, he knows both how to present an image of success while promoting his separation from the conservative political base that has been in some degree of power for over twenty years and has yet to actually make good on their “Contract With America” pledge. Trump, talking like your not quite overtly racist grandfather, took their pledges, ran them through his “Art of the Deal” filter, and stamped “Trump” in big gold letters on them. He’s the image of quick success and fast dealing that unsuccessful lottery players and Trump University victims across the nation want to see themselves as, and conservative backers saw someone who they could absolutely control and direct without fear of conflict with politics, since Trump actually doesn’t give any kind of fuck about even the appearance of ethics. Trump isn’t a genius or playing five dimensional chess in that hollow space below the dead cat on his head or anything, but he knows exactly how to promote to the very people who feel disenfranchised and who have been essentially abandoned by the DNC leadership more focused on fundraising than wide representation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/38 "2017-03-19T18:46:45Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Is he really a deal maker or is that just Trump brand puffery? When I look at Obamacare vs the plan being pushed as fast as it can through congress… intentionally stripped of interstate competition provisions (that even the GOP admits are a Great Idea) just to avoid the possibility of a filibuster… …it makes me think the Trump couldn’t negotiate a Deal if American lives depended upon it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/39 "2017-03-19T19:09:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The only real talent Trump has is self promotion. He has parlayed that into a huge business and winning the presidency. He does not seem to be skilled at anything else. > > However he has connected with the **conservative** base in ways I haven’t seen anyone do before. However did he do that intentionally? I don’t know, I don’t know if he tried to connect with them or if it just happened because he is on the same wavelength as them. Please refrain from further violence to the language. Trump’s supporters are radically reactionary. “Conservative” is one of the LEAST appropriate descriptors for them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/40 "2017-03-19T19:21:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, not with those tiny hands, certainly. That brings up another issue. A top-notch negotiator has to be cool headed at all times. Trump is not like that. He’s repeatedly shown that it’s very easy to push his buttons and make him react emotionally rather than logically. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474/41 "2017-03-19T19:24:38Z")
So you’re saying that 62 million Americans are radical reactionaries? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trump-make-deals/782474.md?page=3)