# Can Trumpists ever be forgiven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965 "2018-11-23T04:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/1 "2018-11-23T04:23:04Z")
One day, Mr. Trump will be long gone but most of his supporters, facilitators, various ‘fellow travelers’, and uncategorizable sycophants will remain. What Trump and the Greedy Old Plutocrats\* have done is unforgivable. Those who enabled them cannot be forgiven. And, I am not confining my loathing to the power-brokers and ‘higher ups’. Anyone who voted for Trump, cheered for him, or did not question him, does not deserve forgiveness. Anyone who enabled Trump (regardless of the stage of Trump’s political career when the enabling act was committed) is fundamentally immoral or amoral, so why would I forgive? Well, maybe I could forgive any ‘kids’ who didn’t know any better. And I guess the truly stupid, too. (\*imitating ‘Socrates’ 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/2 "2018-11-23T05:11:24Z")
You have a bunch of Trump supporters asking you for forgiveness do ya? Did you make it a point to offer forgiveness to those who voted for Bush? How did that work out for you? I live in Iowa and I certainly don’t worry about forgiving those who have continually voted for Steve King for US Congress. You might have heard of him… YMMV ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/3 "2018-11-23T13:24:53Z")
Good job paving the way for ongoing future political divisiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/4 "2018-11-23T13:28:43Z")
What an odd question. The issue isn’t about “forgiveness”; it’s about damage limitation. If those who voted for Trump continue to lay siege to basic truth and human decency, I shall continue to defend those things against them. And if we focus too much on the past, we’ll miss the next Trump coming down the pike. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/5 "2018-11-23T13:37:01Z")
Forgiven is a strange way of putting it. From my perspective, I can understand why somebody voted for Trump. I can appreciate that somebody could be feel so strongly about being left behind and ignore that they would vote for _any_ political change, no matter how personally repulsive and incompetent. What I cannot understand is why he continues to have any support from any rational person? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/6 "2018-11-23T13:39:56Z")
Do you see any evidence that they will _ask_ for, or even want, forgiveness? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/7 "2018-11-23T13:43:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What an odd question. Well, it had a sorta Thanksgiving origin. Anyway, what I had in mind - what motivated me to ask it - was reflecting on how good Germans and “good Germans” behaved toward each other after May '45. I think there may be some degree of similarity with what might happen in the US after Jan '21. So, maybe “odd” but IMO relevant (and interesting). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/8 "2018-11-23T13:55:34Z")
Forgiveness is a moot point. I feel like a better question would be, can we ever trust their intellect, morality, or whatever they state their intentions are? No, absolutely not. I can co-exist with people knowing they’re dumb or mean or fixated on “the deficit” for whatever reason (budget or trade? “hurrr, ya know, that thar one where Obama did the socialism?”). I can forgive people who were hoodwinked by a sophisticated propaganda machine. But never, ever will I ever trust what they think or say. Never, ever will I respect their “values” knowing half of them were installed by Fox News. Never, ever will I trust anybody who so deeply lacked an adult understanding of “the establishment” that they believed all the “Flight 93 election” bullshit. Nope. All I have is my vote, but I vote to send them all to sit at the political kids table forever. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/9 "2018-11-23T14:00:15Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You have a bunch of Trump supporters asking you for forgiveness do ya? Did you make it a point to offer forgiveness to those who voted for Bush? How did that work out for you? > … Not even REMOTELY the same thing. I was not fond of Bush, but he was a Normal Person. None of them is asking for my forgiveness, which is good, because, no, I can’t forgive such destructive, short-sighted stupidity. Anyone who had ever heard the name of our current president or knew one thing about him had to know he was an ignorant, self-serving blowhard. I don’t care how much you personally hated Hillary Clinton; she was qualified for the job and the current president was not and is not, a fact that becomes more evident every single day. No forgiveness for those who made this presidency happen. And no soup for them either. ETA: What **HMS Irruncible** said. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/10 "2018-11-23T14:06:52Z")
People moved on after the Civil War, and after the opposition to the Civil Rights movement. Germans moved on from Nazism, the Japanese from imperialism. Every country has something like this. It’s not so much as they forgave people for choosing the evil side as everyone sort of agreed to pretend the evil side was made up of someone else. For the most part most white Americans opposed civil rights, but twenty or thirty years almost all those people, with a few famous exceptions, just didn’t admit that anymore and everyone went along with it. So it will be with Trumpism. In 2048, very, very few people will admit to have been Trumpists. They’ll be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/11 "2018-11-23T14:18:32Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > What I cannot understand is why he continues to have any support from any rational person? I saw an interesting article a while back which pointed out that many people are judging Trump by his deeds and ignore his words. I have, of course, lost the link, so I’m struggling to think of his actual achievements, SCOTUS aside, but my brother pointed out that when he started complaining about trade with Europe, EU ministers scurried to meet his officials. And presumably some small deal was done more to America’s benefit. The most recent article I’ve found listing his achievements is [here](https://canadafreepress.com/article/trumps-accomplishments) (biased site alert!) Which looks suspiciously like a cut’n’paste job. But I’m struggling to see anything that’s an actual achievement that’s actually down to Trump. And many of the items, particularly on the abortion front, can be seen very differently. If you look at [this biased article](https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/389964-the-media-wont-admit-it-but-president-trump-has-had-a-great-2018) from earlier in the year you’ll see he’s adopted Blair’s practice of announcing the total rather than the annual: > [@](#): > > In addition, the Trump administration rolled out an FY 2019 budget that saved $3 trillion over the next ten years for American taxpayers. So that’s actually $300M a year, less than $1 per citizen. Or perhaps around $5 per taxpayer. Not such a big cut after all. Still, I suppose it’s the principle. Or should that be principal? 😃 Like any salesman, he’s big on plans, like his plan for bridges and roads, but I haven’t heard of anything actually happening. **Until it does then it’s all hot air, smoke, and mirrors.** And the scrote hasn’t even legalised the importation of haggis! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/12 "2018-11-23T14:25:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And the scrote hasn’t even legalised the importation of haggis! That’s because Russia doesn’t make it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/13 "2018-11-23T14:26:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > People moved on after the Civil War… Isn’t Trump evidence that they didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/14 "2018-11-23T14:33:09Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Good job paving the way for ongoing future political divisiveness. We’ll just add the OP’s OP to the _Canonical List of Reasons Why Trump Won_. Thing’s gotta be longer than Kerouac’s Charmin by now. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/15 "2018-11-23T14:39:06Z")
Only if they atone. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/16 "2018-11-23T15:10:27Z")
I can forgive those that voted from him out of ignorance and/or desperation. They may have figured “what have I got to lose?” Now it is apparent what is now at risk- democracy itself. This man is the epitome of evil and if you support him now you simply cannot be a good person and this is a permanent and irredeemable stain on your character. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/17 "2018-11-23T15:13:40Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Only if they atone. This is best accomplished by voting for “not-Trump” in 2020, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/18 "2018-11-23T15:15:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > … So that’s actually $300M a year, less than $1 per citizen. Or perhaps around $5 per taxpayer. Not such a big cut after all. … $3 trillion / 10 = $300 _BILLION_, not million. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/19 "2018-11-23T15:24:56Z")
BeepKillBeep: > [@](#): > > What I cannot understand is why he continues to have any support from any rational person? I assume that your definition of “rational person” excludes anyone right-wing? Because there’s ample reason to continue supporting him if one is. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/20 "2018-11-23T15:32:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > $3 trillion / 10 = $300 _BILLION_, not million. :smack: :smack: :smack: Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965.md?page=2)