# Can Trumpists ever be forgiven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965 "2018-11-23T04:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/21 "2018-11-23T15:37:41Z")
We forgave the Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/22 "2018-11-23T15:42:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > We forgave the Germans. While they still fought? Did we forgive the ones that never atoned, that never quit spewing hatred? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/23 "2018-11-23T15:43:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > We forgave the Germans. …And then we were friends Though they murdered six million In the ovens they fried The Germans now, too Have God on their side ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/24 "2018-11-23T16:08:20Z")
Trump had no real ideology. He threw out a bunch of idiotic ideas and when they resonated with the crowds he repeated them. The positions he takes are the fault of his voters. He is not Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, he is a giant mirror that reflects the views of his supporters. Fuck every last one of them. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/25 "2018-11-23T16:09:26Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I assume that your definition of “rational person” excludes anyone right-wing? Because there’s ample reason to continue supporting him if one is. No, it doesn’t. I’m not anti-conservative. In fact, I think that a well functioning society needs both liberals and conservatives. However, in my view, Republicans are no longer rationally conservative. So, in my mind, any rational conservative should not be supporting neither the Republicans nor Donald Trump. In the midterms, the best thing any conservative could have done would be to contact their local representatives (Congress and/or Senate) and tell them, I’m a Republican voter and I’m not voting Republican again until you normalize the party and get rid of the extremism. So, to sum up, I absolutely think somebody can be both right-wing/conservative\* and rational, and such a person should not be supporting Donald Trump is they care about their country. - - From a Canadian political perspective, I am slightly conservative. Although, with the conservative movement pushing further right at the moment, I’m sure if I were to take such a test again I would come up as slightly liberal as the center for Canadian politics has likely shifted. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/26 "2018-11-23T16:12:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > People moved on after the Civil War, and after the opposition to the Civil Rights movement. Germans moved on from Nazism, the Japanese from imperialism. Every country has something like this. Do the Japanese have statues to their WWII generals? Do the Germans have swastikas on their state flags? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/27 "2018-11-23T16:36:35Z")
Nixon declared war on his enemies. By which I mean us, anybody who wasn’t a Nixonite. Sound familiar? No, I’ve never forgiven him or the Silent Majority that actively aided and abetted him and are the progenitors of today’s Trumpettes. We lost that last battle. But we seem to be learning some lessons about how to fight this one. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/28 "2018-11-23T17:02:46Z")
If by “Forgiveness,” we mean we forswear recompense from or punishment of the offender, then I suppose we must. I deeply wish that every liar, conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones listener, racist, hypocrite, and Trump voter could be punished for it. But that’s not possible. I won’t forget, though. I absolutely will not forget. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/29 "2018-11-23T17:03:57Z")
Let’s not put all the focus on Trump; let’s recognize that Trumpists were Trumpian before Trump even arrived as a major player on the political scene. He tapped into what was already there. Maybe instead of Trumpists we should call them Foxists. I think it’s a generation of Fox News propaganda that paved the way for a right wing populist like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/30 "2018-11-23T17:23:31Z")
What’s different if you forgive a Trump supporter vs. not forgiving him or her? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/31 "2018-11-23T17:25:42Z")
BeepKillBeep: > [@](#): > > So, in my mind, any rational conservative should not be supporting neither the Republicans nor Donald Trump. So, a rational conservative should support candidates who will appoint liberal judges and justices? (Just one example of how it makes sense for them to continue to support Trump but probably the biggest.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/32 "2018-11-23T17:28:52Z")
Never forgive, never forget. Harry, harass and harangue them unto the third generation. Let them all be sent swordless to Palestine. Vendetta doesn’t even _begin_ to cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/33 "2018-11-23T17:29:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What’s different if you forgive a Trump supporter vs. not forgiving him or her? The same difference it makes if you forgive anyone else, I guess. What difference does it make to you when _you_ forgive others? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/34 "2018-11-23T17:53:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > …And then we were friends > Though they murdered six million > In the ovens they fried > The Germans now, too > Have God on their side Since this is not one of Mr. Zimmerman’s more famous songs, I’ll link to YouTubes for the Generation X’ers and Y’ers. [Joan sings that stanza](https://youtu.be/xUZGGFOV6FM?t=167). And so [does Bob himself.](https://youtu.be/_IZ6Z4X59so?t=188) ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/35 "2018-11-23T17:54:55Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > BeepKillBeep: > > So, a rational conservative should support candidates who will appoint liberal judges and justices? (Just one example of how it makes sense for them to continue to support Trump but probably the biggest.) Yes, in my opinion, given what Trump and the Republicans currently represent. Making a political choice is always going to be about balancing wanting something and having to give up something else to get it. I don’t think there is anyway to rationalize away just how awful what the Trump and Republicans currently represent. Now, of course, some people might believe otherwise, but as I said in my first post in the thread, this is where I do not understand his current support from any rational conservative. To me, if a person cares about the country as a whole, then they cannot support Trump and the Republicans as they are right now. Now, without question, there are single (or few) issue conservatives (and liberals of course but we’re talking about conservatives) for whom their issue is simply worth any cost. I do not consider this to be a rational stance. There has to be some cost that makes temporarily losing, as your example, the judiciary worthwhile. Trump and the Republicans have, in my opinion, clearly crossed that line and are waving it goodbye as it crosses over the horizon. I would love it, if a rational conservative could explain to me how Trumpism is worth any single (or few) conservative issue(s)? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/36 "2018-11-23T17:57:34Z")
Missed edit window. As an example, let’s take the SCOTUS. What is the fear here with respect to losing control of the court? What is it that a rational conservative fears is going to realistically happen? Alternatively, what recent rulings have been so abhorent from the SCOTUS that mandates having control of it at any cost? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/37 "2018-11-23T18:05:08Z")
Your post’s repeated abuse of the word “rational” gives me little hope that you’re actually willing to listen to your political opponents and consider their viewpoints, but anyways … Conservatives dislike all sorts of SCOTUS rulings: _Roe_, _Obergefell_, King v. Burwell, etc. I don’t know of any conservatives that argue that we must have control of it “at any cost”, I think that’s probably a figment of your overactive imagination, but it’s certainly a priority for conservatives, as it is for liberals, precisely because it has the power to make sweeping rulings that affect broad swaths of society. You obviously perceive the “cost” of a Trump administration as much higher than many conservatives do. Perhaps you should start there, trying to convince more of us that the “cost” is high. So far we’ve got an economy that’s humming along, ultra-low unemployment, ISIS is largely defeated, etc. What’s the “cost” I should be concerned with? That President Trump and Acosta occasionally have spats? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/38 "2018-11-23T18:09:52Z")
I’ll _think_ about forgiving them _if_ they ask us to forgive them. I don’t really think that’s ever going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/39 "2018-11-23T18:31:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That President Trump and Acosta occasionally have spats? It is things like (along with your posting history in general) this which prevent me from considering you to be a rational conservative. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/40 "2018-11-23T18:34:18Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > It is things like (along with your posting history in general) this which prevent me from considering you to be a rational conservative. Sorry. Apology not necessary because I don’t consider your posts to be rational either. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965.md?page=3)