# Can Trumpists ever be forgiven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965 "2018-11-23T04:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/101 "2018-11-24T17:48:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh the irony. You got me. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/102 "2018-11-24T18:15:48Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > I \*wish \*there were a hell so I \*could \*condemn them to it… > > …Ooooh, it’s ME who is the hater.:rolleyes: Well…yes? ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/103 "2018-11-24T18:23:52Z")
The OP appears to have been harmed in some way as a consequence of Trump’s election to the U.S. presidency. Resolving that issue might be accomplished if we knew they are: 1) A caravan member, 2) Carrier of an un-wanted pregnancy, 3) A Chinese manufacturing Co. executive, 4) Kashoggi family member, 5) Renewable Energy Industry employee, 6) Democrat. Unless you can ascribe some pending or expected damage along these lines, I cannot imagine why your knickers would be in that much of a twist. Life as we know it becoming totally extinct due to Climate Change would not be considered an acceptable anticipated harm in this context. Maybe in 100 years. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/104 "2018-11-24T18:30:36Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > Who wants an apology? There is not enough sorry in the world to make up for this abomination. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Valid reasons? This guy could literally shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and we would still hear about his great SCOTUS appointments. If you can look past his illiterate incompetence, his curroption, his boarder policies, his attacks on the courts, the press, and the environment, shooting some random person on the street isn’t really so bad, is it? Lots of people are shot every day, we don’t expect our President to be a saint. But he says a lot of stuff we like. Fuck criminals, fuck immigrants, fuck wind power, and fuck everyone that doesn’t want America to be great again! > > If someone can read the White House statement on the murder of the Saudi journalist and not feel that America has lost its way, then all hope is truly lost. You didn’t need to prove my point, but, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/105 "2018-11-24T18:31:15Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > After reading the answers on this thread my question would be, why even try to apologise? > If most won’t forgive you and the rest want medieval levels of penance and abjuration, what’s the point? > They won’t listen to any of your valid reasons, they think you’re either stupid or evil. > Never apologise to people like that. If you are a trump supporter, then you are not apologizing. If you are a trump supporter, then there is nothing to be forgiven for, as you have not done anything to gain forgiveness. If you are a trump supporter, there are no “valid” reasons, there is either hate, or a willingness to accept and enable hate for short sighted petty selfish reasons. “OOOH, look at my 401k, isn’t it pretty?” is not a “valid” reason. “Oh, no, the democrats may succeed in what they have not succeeded at in generations and make it slightly more difficult for me to attain any and every gun I want at any time, and to carry it at any place I choose, while giving the same access to the criminal and the irresponsible” is not a “valid” reason. “He will appoint activist judges that will overturn precedent and make abortion illegal” is not a “valid” reason. Those are all just reason that you justify and rationalize, as you find those specific single issues to be of a greater importance than your future, the future of your children, the future of the nation, and certainly far more important than the consideration of the suffering of others. If you are a trump supporter, you are currently and actively causing harm to your society. No matter how forgiving someone is, you can never forgive someone while they are causing you harm, only after they have stopped. If you _were_ a trump supporter, then the only penance I ask of you is to vote “D” next election. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/106 "2018-11-24T18:43:14Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You didn’t need to prove my point, but, thanks. The only point I see proven here is that you are mistaking capitulation for forgiveness. For forgiveness you have to accept that you did something that needs forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/107 "2018-11-24T19:12:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh the irony. Oh my! Someone on a message board made a spelling mistake!!! Yet to many, it’s fine that our President can’t chase down, let alone have a coherent thought. No problem with that. The man uses Twitter like a 12 year old getting excited about the latest boy band. He doesn’t lie so much as just being a clueless fucking moron. He doesn’t consider his lies to be lies. It’s just the way he has always been. Creating one disaster after another. After all, someone will always clean up after him. He knows NO OTHER WAY. He is SLOWLY discovering these things called laws. And that breaking them may just get a person in trouble. EVEN HIM. Oh my, that’s gotta be a come Jesus moment. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/108 "2018-11-24T19:33:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Well…yes? Nice edit and nice try. :rolleyes: Them going to hell is not going to ever be made real. My wishing it does not make it real and never will. Their hate has real consequences for real people every day, all day. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/109 "2018-11-24T19:40:15Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > Their hate has real consequences for real people every day, all day. Still looking for 1 specific example of this so-called “consequence…” ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/110 "2018-11-24T19:52:44Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Still looking for 1 specific example of this so-called “consequence…” Are you serious? If you are, I think it’s pointless for me to engage with you. The phrase “can’t get there from here” springs to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/111 "2018-11-24T20:08:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you are a trump supporter, then you are not apologizing. > > If you are a trump supporter, then there is nothing to be forgiven for, as you have not done anything to gain forgiveness. > > If you are a trump supporter, there are no “valid” reasons, there is either hate, or a willingness to accept and enable hate for short sighted petty selfish reasons. “OOOH, look at my 401k, isn’t it pretty?” is not a “valid” reason. “Oh, no, the democrats may succeed in what they have not succeeded at in generations and make it slightly more difficult for me to attain any and every gun I want at any time, and to carry it at any place I choose, while giving the same access to the criminal and the irresponsible” is not a “valid” reason. “He will appoint activist judges that will overturn precedent and make abortion illegal” is not a “valid” reason. Those are all just reason that you justify and rationalize, as you find those specific single issues to be of a greater importance than your future, the future of your children, the future of the nation, and certainly far more important than the consideration of the suffering of others. > > If you are a trump supporter, you are currently and actively causing harm to your society. No matter how forgiving someone is, you can never forgive someone while they are causing you harm, only after they have stopped. > > If you _were_ a trump supporter, then the only penance I ask of you is to vote “D” next election. Still making my point. If you can’t imagine that lots of people voted for Trump except 401k, guns, and abortion then maybe there’s the problem. For example, the 5 million + Obama-Trump voters. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The only point I see proven here is that you are mistaking capitulation for forgiveness. For forgiveness you have to accept that you did something that needs forgiving. I know the difference. The people on this thread don’t want penance. They want capitulation. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/112 "2018-11-24T20:18:03Z")
So many unhinged leftist posts in this thread. This is comical. There’s real insanity on the left. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/113 "2018-11-24T20:21:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Still making my point. If you can’t imagine that lots of people voted for Trump except 401k, guns, and abortion then maybe there’s the problem. For example, the 5 million + Obama-Trump voters. Like if a good number of people that made a mistake before can not learn why it was a mistake and vote accordingly. > **[Democrats lead Republicans in midterms by largest vote margin in history](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/midterms-elections-democrats-lead-republicans-house-representatives-trump-a8646116.html?utm_source=reddit.com)** > > Republicans trail by record 8.9m votes with only one seat undecided > [@](#): > > As of Thursday, Democratic candidates had polled 59,351,147 votes in House seats across the country in the 2018 midterms, compared to Republicans’ 50,438,143, according to the Cook Political Report. > > Democrats are on course for more than 60.5 million ballots in total, the closest an opposition party has come in midterm elections to matching the president’s popular vote two years earlier. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I know the difference. The people on this thread don’t want penance. They want capitulation. Nah, as others pointed, voting against Trump and the current crop of republicans will do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/114 "2018-11-24T20:33:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So many unhinged leftist posts in this thread. This is comical. There’s real insanity on the left. Lots of Trump supporters say this. They never defend their beliefs - they can’t - they just respond to criticism by crying about leftists. As if “ditching DACA is stupid and putting kids in internment camps is vile” are leftist ideas. As if crying about “the left” constitutes an argument. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/115 "2018-11-24T20:34:52Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Still looking for 1 specific example of this so-called “consequence…” A Trump supporter tried to kill **Sailboat** ’s wife. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/116 "2018-11-24T20:37:32Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Still making my point. If you can’t imagine that lots of people voted for Trump except 401k, guns, and abortion then maybe there’s the problem. For example, the 5 million + Obama-Trump voters. Sorry, but not really making your point, no matter how much you claim. I could respond to every one of your posts with “You’re making my point.”, just the same. It’s not an actual debate tactic, just a tactic to act smug and dismissive. I gave the more charitable reasons for people supporting trump. There were also those who support him because they do like the racists, xenophobic, isolationist message that they are hearing. As far as voting, yes, there are many reasons that people voted for him. He promised that they would get their coal mining job back. He promised that they would keep their job at the air conditioner factory. He promised to lower the deficit. He promised that he would “fix” healthcare, and that everyone would have access to better and less expensive insurance. He made a lot of promises, and if you were desperate enough, then you may even believe them. I can forgive someone who was hoodwinked. I can forgive someone who made a mistake out of desperation. Now that two years have passed, and we see that those jobs aren’t coming back, we see that healthcare is getting worse due to his actions, not better, the deficit is expanding entirely without control, and all of the negative social policies that they ignored in their desperation for a quick and easy fix are in fact coming to bear, the rational voter realizes that they have made a mistake, and changes course. The irrational voter continues to defend their choice, continues to blame their perception of hillary’s failures as the reason for their continued support. They blame some idiot in berkeley being an idiot for their support of a president who does not condemn actual nazis. The irrational voter searches desperately for tuqueques to use to justify their own actions, rationalizing that if there is anyone at all on the other side of the political divide that has done anything, then that gives their side free reign to indulge in that activity unimpeded. The irrational voter acts smug in their choice, playing games, and pretending that any criticism at all of their decision in how to govern the country that we all share is “making their point.” Would you like to put forth the reasons that you are a trump supporter? Have you gotten what you wanted? > [@](#): > > I know the difference. The people on this thread don’t want penance. They want capitulation. Capitulation to reality, sure. If someone doesn’t believe that human’s actions are changing the climate in ways that are most likely not favorable to ourselves, then I want them to capitulate on that belief, just as I want anti-vaxxers to capitulate on those beliefs, as well. If you still think that those jobs are coming back, and all we need is a bit more tariffs and a bit taller wall, then we want you to capitulate on that as well. By capitulation, you mean acknowledging reality. So yeah, capitulate to reality, and vote “D”, and all is forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/117 "2018-11-24T20:42:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So many unhinged leftist posts in this thread. This is comical. There’s real insanity on the left. Did you actually want to point to and break down these comical unhinged posts, or are you just doing the passive aggressive lazy game of making an unsubstantiated claim, and assuming that that is enough to score some internet points? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/118 "2018-11-24T20:44:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So many unhinged leftist posts in this thread. This is comical. There’s real insanity on the left. The left believes in pizza and Bill Gates. The right believes in Pizzagate. I leave it to the reader to decide which side’s gates are more unhinged. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965/119 "2018-11-24T20:51:44Z")
I originally thought this thread could be had in this forum and contain actual discussion, but that was a misjudgment on my part. Feel free to start another thread to bicker and snipe at each other in the Pit. This one is closed. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-trumpists-ever-be-forgiven/824965.md?page=5)