# Can victorious nations keep POWs after a war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415 "2001-11-20T16:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/1 "2001-11-20T16:09:55Z")
Media reports speculate that the US and its allies might be confronted with thousands of surrenduring/captured prisoners in Afganistan. This prompts me to ask this Q. To my knowledge, modern prisoners of war are returned (or allowed to return) to their native nation after a peace has been settled. But, 1. is that _always_ the case, and 2. is it _required_ by some international law/agreement/convention? Can, for example, a victorious nation say, “Screw these guys. They still hate us like crazy and if we let them go they’ll only regroup in a year or two and we’ll be at it again. We captured them fair and square and we’re keeping 'em.”? Naturally, I’m not talking about the evil big-shots that might be held for war crimes and such; I’m talking about average hapless grunts who surrendered or got caught. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/2 "2001-11-20T16:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Prisoners of war shall be released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities. – from Article 118 of the [Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War](http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/3 "2001-11-20T16:26:45Z")
Victorious powers _can_ keep prisoners of war after cessation of hostilities. Two examples that spring instantly to mind are Vietnam and the Soviet Union. However, it causes difficulties for normalisation of relations with the defeated power. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/4 "2001-11-20T16:46:42Z")
While keeping prisoners after the cessation of hostilities is expressly prohibited by the Geneva convention (as pointed out by someone else in this thread), in practice even Geneva convention signatories violate this law. Britain, for example, continued to hold German prisoners from WWII until 1948. Of course, Britain being one of the victors and a major power to boot, no one was really in a position to do anything about this infraction. I expect it will be the same if the US elects to detain Afghani prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/5 "2001-11-20T16:52:39Z")
Hmm the soviets began to let POWs captured in WWII go in 1949 unless they were war criminals , however so many died in the poor conditions they were kept in , the reconstruction of Stalingrad and meagre amounts of food they were given very few made it back.After Stalin died all POWs were set free by 1956. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/6 "2001-11-20T17:14:31Z")
German POWs were used in Arkansas to replace agricultural labor and in the lumber industry. They were kept working after the war, but I don’t know for how long. ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/7 "2001-11-20T20:18:15Z")
Great question, and a real hot topic for a lot of historians. I believe that after the Nazi defeat/surrender, the status of German POWs was changed to something other than POW (and so exempt from Geneva Convention fair treatment) as the German state was deemed by the Allies to no longer exist. AFAIK, the Japanese POWs and surrendering field forces were returned to Japan as soon as it was expidient to do so. I understand Iraq still holds Kuwaitis taken into custody in 1991, and that there are still prisoners from the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. In the case of Kuwait, Iraq would likely claim (however feebly) that Kuwait is a part of Iraq, and so Kuwaitis imprisioned in Iraq are civil and not military prisoners. The difference between making a claim and making a claim stick would here seem to be who has the keys to the cells. There were a number of Greek-Cypriot defense force personnel taken by Turkey when the Turks went there (Cyprus) in 1974. Some of these people sort of disappeared forever --or at least for the last 27 years. Then of course there was the guy (Bulgarian?) from WW2 who somehow ended up in s Russian mental hospital until a couple of years ago. Does someone have a link on him? ---
**Author:** ![CLedet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CLedet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLedet)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/8 "2001-11-20T23:32:40Z")
In relation to Taliban POW’s, since the Taliban regime in all likelyhood will no longer exist, to whom will the POW’s be returned to? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/9 "2001-11-20T23:39:18Z")
The Chiricahua Apache Tribe was kept as prisoners of war by the United States for [well over twenty years](http://www.regenerationreservation.org/An%20Apache%20Chief%20Finds%20Truth.htm). However, that was well prior to the 1950 Geneva Convention resolution. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/10 "2001-11-20T23:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JCHeckler \* > I believe that after the Nazi defeat/surrender, the status of German POWs was changed to something other than POW (and so exempt from Geneva Convention fair treatment) as the German state was deemed by the Allies to no longer exist. Huh. You got a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/11 "2001-11-21T14:10:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JCHeckler \* > Then of course there was the guy (Bulgarian?) from WW2 who somehow ended up in s Russian mental hospital until a couple of years ago. Does someone have a link on him? \*\* [Yes.](http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/08/11/hungary.free/) Andras Tamas (Hungarian) was kept in a Soviet mental hospital for decades after his capture. He was transferred to a Budapest institution when his speech was finally identified as Hungarian, not babbling. He does seem to be mentally ill, though, so it’s a stretch to call him a retained POW. The Soviets did, from some accounts, hold hundreds of thousands of Japanese prisoners captured in China and Korea for a number of years after the war, as laborers in Siberia. ---
**Author:** ![Robbespiere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/47e85d/32.png) [@Robbespiere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robbespiere)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/12 "2001-11-22T16:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The Soviets did, from some accounts, hold hundreds of thousands of Japanese prisoners captured in China and Korea for a number of years after the war, as laborers in Siberia. \*\* As far as I know, The USSR and Japan never signed a peace treaty until quite recently. Therefore, a state of war was still in existance while the prisoners were being held. The US had made a separate peace with Japan. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/13 "2001-11-22T16:28:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Robbespiere \* > \*\* a state of war was still in existance \*\* That’s interesting given that the Russians declared war on the Japanese after the bomb was used to grab territory, and some say that the added threat of the Soviet Union was the reason the Japanese surrendered. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/14 "2001-11-22T16:49:43Z")
I was just discussing this the other day regarding Manual Noriega. While he was being tried, and I think even now, he was allowed to wear his uniform as required by the Geneva Convention. But if he was a prisoner of war, shouldn’t he have been tried for war crimes, or can they haul your ass into a normal civil or criminal court for any minor charge the holding nation can dream up? Not that Noriega’s offense was minor, but what’s the rule in this case? ---
**Author:** ![llamasex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@llamasex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llamasex)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/15 "2001-11-23T12:21:10Z")
How does this work then > [@](#): > > Thousands of Osama bin Laden’s core Arab supporters in the northern Afghan city of Kunduz – and thousands more who’ve already melted into the countryside – pose a perplexing problem for the United States. > > If they aren’t killed, they must be locked up forever, the Pentagon says, because any who are given amnesty or free passage will simply try to launch more terror. [http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/11/22/taliban\_problem/index.html](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/11/22/taliban_problem/index.html) Are we not at war? or are these not POWS? or are they guilty of war crimes? none of those really seems to fit. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/16 "2001-11-23T12:49:42Z")
I think the truth is, we’re in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, we _could_ make a fist of it and allow the non-Afghani fighters to return to their countries of origin as per the Convention but that creates the problem of supplying the still existing and amorphous terrorist organisations with more cannon fodder – or, for example, suicide bombers. Certainly, some of those Arabs, Chechins, Pakistani’s and even Chinese are in Afghanistan for a youthful beano but others really are committed to the Jihad – in that sense the war is far from over. So, do you release enemy troops while the enemy is still in the field or do you accept that it’s a decision for their Afghani captors (in which case, from their perspective, the war will soon be over and they should be released) or do you detain them indefinitely (and by so doing) create another Palestinian type refugee/displaced persons/cause to which extremist Muslims can then attach themselves ? I suspect the hope is that those committed to the Jihad will rather die where they are and for their ‘cause’. ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/17 "2001-11-23T15:00:46Z")
It seems the Afgan problem of POWs is being solved by the NA since NA massacre prisoners , something on the news last night about the red cross finding 600+ bodies in Mazari sharif. ---
**Author:** ![Aceospades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Aceospades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aceospades)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/18 "2001-11-23T17:26:56Z")
Please, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but are we officially at war with Afghanistan? Doesn’t there have to be a declaration of war? If were not officially at war, are the people we capture really POW’s and do they receive the rights the Geneva Convention grants them? Maybe were just confining them indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/19 "2001-11-23T19:06:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by JCHeckler \* > > I believe that after the Nazi defeat/surrender, the status of German POWs was changed to something other than POW (and so exempt from Geneva Convention fair treatment) as the German state was deemed by the Allies to no longer exist. > > Huh. You got a cite for that? \*\* There was a thread in “Comments on Cecil’s Columns” (or was it “Staff Reports”?)a year or more ago. Unfortunately, searching for “eisenhower” didn’t yield anything promising (but you’re welcome to try harder). So, no cite, but the gist was that following WWII, the risk of starvation throughout Europe was significant. The Geneva convention would have required better treatment of the German POWs than it would be possible for the general European population to receive. To avoid this, German POW’s were given a different status. The original question was along the lines of “Was Eisenhower a war criminal?” hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415/20 "2001-11-23T19:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aceospades \* > Please, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but are we officially at war with Afghanistan? Doesn’t there have to be a declaration of war? If were not officially at war, are the people we capture really POW’s and do they receive the rights the Geneva Convention grants them? Maybe were just confining them indefinitely. > [@](#): > > In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them. – From Article 2 of the [Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War](http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm), emphasis added Which is not to say that it’s at all clear who is and is not a combatant entitled to POW status in the war in Afghanistan. **ZenBeam:** Well, I didn’t see any thread like that, so for the time being, I’m not really convinced about the whole “we legally declared German POW’s to be non-POW’s so we wouldn’t have to feed them” claim. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-victorious-nations-keep-pows-after-a-war/94415.md?page=2)