# Can we afford not to dismantle Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2001, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738 "2001-01-25T16:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/81 "2001-01-26T03:27:14Z")
Mr. BunnyButt > [@](#): > > So, Sua, or anybody else, did we come up with a solution? ::jumping up and down with his hand in the air:: ME!! ME!!! I DID!!! I HAVE A SOLUTION!!! you know…the moving the dirt thing… > [@](#): > > You fell on your popsicle here You are making serious accusations there… Sua, do you have popsicles that you are not sharing?? Don’t lie to us… > [@](#): > > There is more to elections than anyone who enjoys the sandbox can fathom. I agree. My cat would be thoroughly confused trying to understand elections. I have always thought the true brillance of the founding fathers came out when they withheld the vote from felines everywhere. > [@](#): > > think the anti-intellectualism running through this thread speaks for itself. MAN!!! I thought you and I were never going to agree on anything. I guess I was wrong. > [@](#): > > , even Sua avoided this lunatic proof, I think. [sub]Between you and me, you might want to avoid that word[/sub] > [@](#): > > Glad you think you’re funny on such a serious topic, at least someone does. Call me Crazy [sub]sorry[/sub] but I didn’t say anything funny. If you want to debate me, then please use your own thoughts. I have never been succesfully refuted, so I dare you to try. I am merely trying to use an art form called unrestricted[sub]unmedicated[/sub] thinking to project possible solution to the ills we face. You should hear my thoughts on alternative sewer systems. It’s deep dude. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/82 "2001-01-26T04:21:26Z")
Now my brain hurts… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/83 "2001-01-26T04:26:06Z")
While I have really enjoyed my time on this board, it is often difficult. I mean, in a lot of threads, in order to present my POV and rebut opposing positions, I have to think. In this thread, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brian Bunnyhurt \* > \*\*Sua, > You point out that the US does not sell to nations after the fact they finally achieve war and use this to support the idea that they would not therefore profit by it. Oh, this is deep thinking. Of course they don’t keep selling, because we finally don’t let them, but they understand this game, and they still stay in business because they supply whoever is trying to war with them, so your reasoning on this point does not hold any water and even sounds stupid. War is profit, you imply it is futile to sell arms and go to war and suffer a ban. However, as the ten major defense contractors know, it is never futile for arms dealers to prepare warring nations. :yawn: Mr. Short-Term Memory, you were referring to the Iran-Iraq war when you went on your anti-arms suppliers tirade. I pointed out that U.S. arms contractors are prohibited from selling arms to either nation. No, it’s not deep thinking - it’s a simple statement of fact. > [@](#): > > Also, you claim that Iranians aren’t Arabs, therefore “they don’t count.” Oh, you tipped your hand here, and I’m tempted to call you a poser. You said they don’t count on what basis? :giggle: They “don’t count” because \*\* you were talking about how our support of Israel has riled up the Arabs.\*\* As Iranians aren’t Arabs, they are not an Arab enemy of us, or of Israel. > [@](#): > > I think you imagine that you make the debate rules on what is allowed or what “counts”. :snort: Thanks for reminding me. I haven’t bothered the Administrators to change my title from “member” to “Almighty Arbiter of Debates” in a couple of weeks. I’ll get right on it. > [@](#): > > I was talking Israel and just because I mentioned Arabs didn’t mean I was talking only about Arabs or excluding other Muslims in the region. :sigh: I remind you, son, that this is your “debate”. You say things; I rebut them. If you want to extend your allegations about the enemies of the United States to include non-Arabs, I suggest you ask a Moderator to edit your previous posts. But from now on, we will include the Iranians. > [@](#): > > Your arrogance is astounding in this one instance. “It doesn’t count…” :bwa-ha-ha: Gee, I always thought my arrogance was astounding in more than just this one instance. BTW, even though I noted that Iranians aren’t Arabs, I **did** explain to you the basis of their animosity towards America. Perhaps you didn’t read that, or you just “forgot”. > [@](#): > > Well, I don’t think you can count regardless, just by your monumentally stupid comment that Israel only costs 3 billion dollars. Gee, what is a huge US Army and Navy doing in the region, policing our friends? :tee-hee: Um, they are there protecting the oil fields of our Arab “enemies”. The Fifth Navy is based in Bahrain, which is in the Persian Gulf, separated by the Arabian Peninsula from Israel. American ground and air troops are stationed in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, not Israel. Oh, I’m not being fair. I’m providing you with facts. My bad. > [@](#): > > You fell on your popsicle here. Well, it certainly didn’t end up in my ass. That’s filled up by [Coldfire’s Thousand-Mile Long Penis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=51977) > [@](#): > > And those allies you smugly imagine to exist all endure volatile inner struggles over the Israel issue, and we buy them off for it. So that cost money too all the way down the line. :I …can’t… breathe… Laughing…too…hard: \*\*Imagine to exist? Please note above stationing of troops in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain. > [@](#): > > By the way, by the same logic (did I mention logic before?) if the dictators of the middle-east find it easy to survive using Israel as their populist rally cry, then the conservative idiots who try to run this country can do the same trick. Did anyone stop to consider that the reason why wealthy oilmen and big ticket defense backers get elected is because they don’t dare contradict the will of the wealthy Jewish lobby, but in fact capitalize on it? Hell, even Al Gore picked Lieberman to get around this insanity. This one, unfortunately, I can’t laugh about. Son, there are other books out there beside _The Protocol of the Elders of Zion_. Try reading one. > [@](#): > > Well, as an atheist, I don’t buy it. And I don’t buy that other atheists would get violently emotional over Israel and my assertions that rabid Christians support them (who in fact love Israel and go on vacations there). True, I have gotten violently emotional about this thread. Milk came out of my nose from laughing too hard. > [@](#): > > So, Sua, or anybody else, did we come up with a solution? Solution to what? You haven’t accurately stated the problem yet. > [@](#): > > I think the anti-intellectualism running through this thread speaks for itself. Pot, meet kettle. I think a good definition of “anti-intellectualism” is refusal to acknowledge or rely on facts, and instead insisting on speaking out of one’s ass. Hmm, anyone on this thread doing that? > [@](#): > > Three posters on this page lamely suggested that we support Israel because they are our ally (Well, DUH!), wake up folks, even Sua avoided this lunatic proof, I think. Son, I haven’t presented you with my position on Israel’s right to exist, or on whether the U.S. should be allied with Israel. I haven’t had the opportunity, because I’m trying to get you to acknowledge the facts before I start debating with you about the issue. For all you know, I agree that Israel has no right to exist. I insist that, whether or not I agree with someone on an issue, the agreement or disagreement is based in fact, not anti-intellectual ravings. > [@](#): > > America also supports Israel because we invented the stupid idea :groan: The idea was “invented” by a European Jew in the late 1800’s. The name escapes me at the moment; I’ll post back soon with his name. > [@](#): > > From now on when I think of circular logic, I will think of this thread. I would accuse you also of circular logic, but that would imply that you have exhibited any logic. Again, not a fact, so I will not assert it. Keep 'em coming, boy. Sua ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/84 "2001-01-26T04:29:24Z")
Brian Bunnyhurt, I’d daresay that not everyone in this thread supports U.S. policy towards Israel. Or in the Middle East in general. The U.S. has made a great many blunders. We can talk about Iran-Iraq wars, the plight of the Palestinians and the violence and the ups and downs of the supposed peace process. We get that. We can debate that if you want. We can even debate the question “Why is Israel really our ally? Is it just because of the powerful Jewish lobby in America?” and I think you’d find a diversity of viewpoints from posters here. No one says that the status quo is a perfect situation, or even close to ideal. But you are not choosing to debate any of those issues. You are proposing, nay, saying we have a **moral obligation** to forcibly move a sovereign state that is quite happy where it is to bring oil prices down and reduce U.S. foreign aid to the region. You are arguing this based on erroneous assumptions about emigration - numbers of emigres, restrictions on emigration, assumptions on where people you’ve never met who have chosen to live in Israel would “rather” live. Because we do not agree with your proposed solutions does not mean that we are fundamentalist Christians, tools of the powerful American Jewish Lobby, or anti-intellectuals. We do, however, look smashing in this season’s new line of tinfoil hats. And finally, a **spelling pet peeve** - sing with me now: “O come, O come Emmanuel…and ransom captive Israel.” IsrAel. IsrAel. Not Is-real. Thank you. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/85 "2001-01-26T04:43:23Z")
Good night everybody, you’ve been great. Don’t forget to tip your waitresses. I must depart, but I’ll be back in the A.M. Sua ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/86 "2001-01-26T04:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brian Bunnyhurt \* > \*\*Freedom2, > > I seem to recall you said something about Jews moving into our backyards. If that doesn’t sum up your position, I don’t know what else does. I am familiar with Canada’s immigration policy as it pertained to citizens of Hong Kong, which was reported that they needed a million bucks in a Canadian bank to casually emigrate to Canada immediately (no, it was not an extortion, sorry for the misunderstading). I was somewhat shocked too, but then again, I can’t speak for the Canadians. \*\* **ONCE AGAIN** This story is total bullshit. There’s no “million dollars” immigration or citizenship requirement in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_Bunnyhurt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/87 "2001-01-26T04:54:52Z")
Sua, Me yawn too. You went from boring headmistress to blithering riddler in two pages. Multiple personalities or just lack of a coherent opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_Bunnyhurt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/88 "2001-01-26T04:59:10Z")
RedRick, Comment on the link I provided F2, she gracefully gave me a “gimme” on it, whatever that is, but that’s slightly lame because she thought she could divert the entire thread with some figure I read in a magazine that was good enough for their fact checkers. Yeah, I wish she read more too. I’ll tell you what, you can have her “gimme” on me. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/89 "2001-01-26T05:02:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > (Brian) America also supports Israel because we invented the stupid idea > > :groan: The idea was “invented” by a European Jew in the late 1800’s. > \*\* [Theodor Herzl.](http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/100/people/bios/herzl.html) One small step for knowledge… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/90 "2001-01-26T05:08:52Z")
Good night, Sua. You’ve all been great - well, all except one of you - and it’s been a pleasure following this thread. And I’m not saying that because I believe you all to be great supporters of the State of Israel; I respect whatever opinions you may have, including those opposing to my own. No, I enjoyed this thread because everybody (minus one) has displayed intelligence, calmness, patience and an open mind. On the other hand, though, there are a few people here I’ll have a hard time thinking nasty thoughts about from here on, and that sucks. 😉 As for you, Bunnyman - I’m an Israeli, temporarily residing in New York. If you have any rational, intelligent questions and opinions to present to me, I’ll be happy to respond; otherwise, ata yachol limtzotz li, ya chatichat chara. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/91 "2001-01-26T05:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brian Bunnyhurt \* > \*\* Did anyone stop to consider that the reason why wealthy oilmen and big ticket defense backers get elected is because they don’t dare contradict the will of the wealthy Jewish lobby, but in fact capitalize on it? Hell, even Al Gore picked Lieberman to get around this insanity. There is more to elections than anyone who enjoys the sandbox can fathom. The news conglomerates who favor Israel insure that this issue is moot and that Israel enjoys free military protection. \*\* So…It’s all the fault of them Jews runnin Washington, and the media. I seem to remember a bunch of bald kids wearin oxblood docs and braces distributing info on that sort of thing over in Dallas…called it the ZOG or some such thing. Is that what were talking about here? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/92 "2001-01-26T05:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Laurange, > > Please recap where I was proven false. I missed it. Nice try. Coming right up, dearie! I’ll be dealing with ONLY concrete facts here, also. **1) Canadian Immigration Issues** > [@](#): > > It is imposed by countries with jobs to protect, such as Canada, which only lets someone into Canada with instant citizenship if they have a million dollars [http://www.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uu7s/aufsatz3.htmp](http://www.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uu7s/aufsatz3.htmp) lists factors looked at when an immigrant (not a refugee) wants to enter Canada. Some factors include occupation, education, knowledge of french and english and arranged employment. Money and holdings figures nowhere. Anecdotal evidence also: I live in Canada and my family has supported two immigrants from the Phillipines who worked for us for years. They were not millionaires, but are now Canadian citizens. Canada is also a very multicultural nation due to the pure VOLUME of immigrants living here. \*\*2) Israeli Migration \*\* > [@](#): > > I consider it an ethical duty to gradually relocate all Jewish people in Israel to wherever they want to go (which is already happening for those who can afford to leave). > [@](#): > > **Originally Posted by Spiny Norman** > > [http://www.cia.gov](http://www.cia.gov) has this to say on Israeli migration: > > Net migration rate: 3.63 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2000 est.) > > - that’s higher than the US migration rate. > > So apparently there are more people moving to Israel than than there are leaving. **3)Israel Being a Secular State** > [@](#): > > Also, let’s not kid ourselves that a religious state of Israel is so democratic, > [@](#): > > **Originally Posted by SuaSponte** > BTW, Israel is not a religious state. Freedom of religion is enshrined in Israeli law. [http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00hb0](http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00hb0) Is that enough or need I continue? ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/93 "2001-01-26T05:33:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > > As for you, Bunnyman - I’m an Israeli, temporarily residing in New York. You drive a cab, of course. How is business? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/94 "2001-01-26T06:03:26Z")
Lets have a look at Brian’s proposal; > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brian Bunnyhurt \* > I consider it an ethical duty to gradually relocate all Jewish people in Israel to wherever they want to go (which is already happening for those who can afford to leave). Also, I would propose making a UN neutral zone for religious pilgrimage/worship at the shrines on different days. Otherwise I fear that terrorist atomic bombs will trigger a long-term crusade/conflagation that will make Vietnam look like a mere conflict again. > > As usual, I favor no religious viewpoint or reasoning in this discussion. \*\* It is now approximately 13 hours following the OP, and I can safely assume that most of this debate has been during American waking hours. What amazes me is the credence given this view in terms of the fact that the premise in the proposal is worthy of debate. But I as a Canadian shouldn’t be surprised. If you Americans could just see yourselves discussing the proposal of dismantling a sovereign state you might have an inkling as to why you are regarded the world over as the most arrogant people in the world. What gives you the right? As a Canadian who has travelled abroad and talked to other Canadians who have travelled abroad as well we often are taken for Americans. When we explain we are from Canada, invariably we are treated in a friendlier manner. That is why many of us display the red maple leaf when travelling abroad. Now I believe that America has done an admirable job in world affairs by and large, and I think Americans are a wonderful people myself, But don’t even think about messing around with the sovereignty of another nation. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/95 "2001-01-26T06:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by magdalene \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > > > > As for you, Bunnyman - I’m an Israeli, temporarily residing in New York. > > You drive a cab, of course. How is business? > > 😛 \*\* Not too bad, actually. It sure beats living on the kibbutz, riding my camel home from tank factory so I can get my 11 kids to evening prayers on time. Thank G-d I managed to save up enough black market dollars to get out of that hellhole. Sure miss my Uzi, though. ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/96 "2001-01-26T06:18:14Z")
grienspace, ONE poster is thinking about dismantling the sovereignty of a state. Many other posters are telling him why this is stupid and wrong. Like you, I’m assuming most of the posters in this thread are American. So I fail to see where your anti-American and “Yay! Canada!” generalizations come in. One bad poster. Many good posters. Yeah, the U.S. can be bullying and wrong-headed about its attitude towards other nations. There was an article on the front page of yesterday’s Wall Street Journal about how we push open markets on others but protect our own industries and how we play the paranoid weakling in diplomacy. And it sucks - it’s a mockery of free trade. It made me angry. I’m going to write a letter to my elected officials. But there is a thread in the Pit where you can take your superiority complex and your generalizations and your “lack of surprise” that we would debate this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/97 "2001-01-26T06:33:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*Not too bad, actually. It sure beats living on the kibbutz, riding my camel home from tank factory so I can get my 11 kids to evening prayers on time. Thank G-d I managed to save up enough black market dollars to get out of that hellhole. > > Sure miss my Uzi, though. \*\* Well, Alessan, the Arabs would pay for an apartment for you, but Pat Roberson won’t let them. You could always live in Freedom2’s back yard. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/98 "2001-01-26T06:39:06Z")
ok bunnybumper, I’ll give you one chance to clear this up for me. Fezzini said go back to the beginning, so here I am, back at the beginning. You don’t believe that Israel has the right to be a country. OK, fine. But do you believe that their sole claim to land is based upon the word of a 3000 year old document? Do you believe that the US would accept that as a valid reason? Do you discount ALL the evidence stated in this thread that shows why Israel is, in fact, a country? You tell us we need to move everyone in Israel. How? Giant forklifts? Israel goes to sleep one night and wakes up in the morning, looks outside at the snow and realizes they’re now in the Yukon? We would have to start a war. This has nothing to do with the bible, but it will end in Armageddon. That I can assure you. We tell Jews to move, they resist, we must use force, they resist with force, war breaks out, all our allies desert us, enemies of Israel support us but, here’s the key, listen closely because there WILL be a quiz in the next section, having common enemies does not mean you’re on the same side. Look at Russia in W.W.II. Wait, too complicated. OK, think about how that bulldog and Tweetybird sometimes tag teamed Sylvester. Anyway, everyone goes to war and we all die. Why? Because we wanted our WD-40 to cost .01 less per quart. Hey, speaking of oil… I said there would be a quiz. Here it is. one question: Getting rid of Israel would make oil prices: a) go higher b) lower c) stay the same d) Indeterminate. Because Israel being in existence doesn’t influence how much OPEC charges for oil and our being allies with some of the OPEC nations won’t matter once Israel is no longer in existence. e) I like eggs Moving on. You assume that most people, if given the choice and the money, would move out of Israel. Why? All day long proof has been given as to why this isn’t true and you’ve ignored every single argument. Not only ignored it, but willingly stated you haven’t the foggiest clue as to why anyone would move to Israel in the first place. It would be nice to know. Might I help? Well, just for starters, it’s the same reason you’re now posting in the electroshock ward of the JDT mental facility: to be with your own kind. Oh, and the figures your getting on immigration to the US and Canada, flawed as they may be in numbers, are also flawed in logic. Imagine that! Those people aren’t all emigrating from Israel. They aren’t escaping Israel. They were escaping Europe during and after the war. You know…where if they stuck around they would have DIED! After the war, they didn’t look too kindly on the place that tried to kill them. Speaking of trying not taking kindly to people trying to kill them, do you really think Jews are going to want to come to the US after the US forcibly removes them from their homes? Especially when it’s so they can go live in apartments built by the Arabs. Can you answer any of these questions? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Why am I wasting the time? You won’t respond. You won’t care. I had better things to do tonight than read this thread. Fighting ignorance is one thing, but I feel that every key I press to respond to you just shoves a modem’s phone line further up your nose in a home lobotomy. The more we type the stupider you get. I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/99 "2001-01-26T09:05:11Z")
I’m sorry, BB, but I insist on quoting: > [@](#): > > So, Sua, or anybody else, did we come up with a solution? Status quo is fine? Should we make the Palestinians eat more shit, perhaps? Start another war and annex the middle-east as one poster suggested? One poster (okay, it was me) suggested you started a thread about how to promote Middle East peace, if that was the debate you wanted. You’ve insted decided to put forward a silly notion and it’s been carefully explained to you why it’s silly. If you ask (and you did) “Can we afford not to dismantle Israel?”, you shouldn’t get your knickers in a knot when people disagree with you. Especially when these people then demonstrate a considerably deeper knowledge of the politics in the region (Spiny tips his hat towards **SuaSponte** ) than you have. And **will** you stop telling everyone how “Christian” they are ? Thanks. I’m not going to ask you - again - to back up your statements, as you’re obviously not going to. S. Norman ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738/100 "2001-01-26T14:31:07Z")
Second christian checking in here. I’m not up on Israel; how are we “funding” them? nd is this a bad thing? Why? The way I understand it, its their land, originally promised to them by God. Chrsitians in America are told to support them for this reason. Dismantle? You want to bomb them or something? Or move them out first (maybe to Alaska) before that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-afford-not-to-dismantle-israel/51738.md?page=6)