# Can we agree on what "Homophobia" means? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541 "2005-12-01T09:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/21 "2005-12-01T19:42:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I wish this was the Pit so I could respond to the last part of this statement with the approbation it deserves. Not everyone is so clear on what the word means. Sometime it is used to mean prejudice, other times it is used to mean raging hate. Prejudice and raging hate are pretty much one and the same. There is no actual logical reason for the dislike, it’s all emotion. Fear, aggression, hatred. It comes out in different ways, depending on the person exhibiting the phobia. It can be insidious or very obvious. A lot of people will attempt to assign what they consider to be logical reasons to their fear and bigotry. I don’t buy it. It’s justification to oneself that you’re (general you) not a bad person for treating someone shoddily based on the gender of their partner. And by treating shoddily, I include everything from sneering comments to attempting to have laws passed to keep those people from enjoying the same rights as every other individual. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/22 "2005-12-01T19:51:20Z")
**Can we agree on what “Homophobia” means?** To sum up the results so far: “prejudiced against gays” : 3 no, we can’t: 2 yes, look it up: 2 irrational fear and/or hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality: 1 everyone knows what it means: 1 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/23 "2005-12-01T19:54:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I wish this was the Pit so I could respond to the last part of this statement with the **approbation** it deserves. Why can’t you give the post in the affirming way you wish? **approbation**. Main Entry: ap·pro·ba·tion Pronunciation: "a-pr&-'bA-sh&n Function: noun **1** \*obsolete \*: PROOF **2 a** : an act of approving formally or officially **b** : COMMENDATION, PRAISE ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/24 "2005-12-01T19:58:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > **Can we agree on what “Homophobia” means?** > > To sum up the results so far: > > “prejudiced against gays” : 3 > no, we can’t: 2 > yes, look it up: 2 > irrational fear and/or hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality: 1 > everyone knows what it means: 1 I do apologize for not being clear. Please put me in the category of #4. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/25 "2005-12-01T20:23:16Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > I disagree; I think it’s important to discover the hidden meanings and biases in the terms we use and come up with the most accurate terms we can so that these biases don’t carry over into the “meat” of the conversation itself. “Homophobia” carries a much different flavor than “gay-hater” and the fact that one person might refer to an anti-gay person as mentally ill (which would make them an object of pity) and another person might refer to them as an evil and/or misguided person (which would make them an object of scorn) is something that will influence the discourse. It might be slight but the influence is still there and I’d rather confront these language problems than dilute my message just to accomodate another person. To clarify: I would suggest that the people who resist honest efforts to clarify the terms under discussion in order to aid mutual understanding are the ones I put into the category of “further conversation will likely be pointless.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/26 "2005-12-01T20:41:52Z")
Homophobia is a catch-all term for any attiude which is hostile to or judgemental of homosexuality or homosexual people. The intensity of homophobic feelings can range from the mild to the rabid. Just to answer the same question that always comes up- if you think homexuality is “immoral” but you don’t actively do anything to hurt homosexul people, you ARE homophobic, you’re just not very intense about. Where I grew up, a lot of people expressed dispproval of interracial relationships. They didn’t go aout and bur crosses or persecute black people but they were still racists. “Homophobe” is basically equivalent to “racist.” It encompasses any feelings of dislike, disapproval, fear, loathing, etc for a group of people based solely on an innate characteristic which they cannot change and which has no bearing on what kind of people they are. Religion does not excuse homophobic feelings or make them any more rational than it does for racism. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/27 "2005-12-01T20:50:19Z")
The word has been around long enough for people to know what it means. It is a bias or prejudice. It is an assumption that something is wrong with “them”, or that “they” are not as good. Again, the word has been around long enough so we all know what it means. Lissener captured it just fine: > [@lissener](#): > > All this debate about what it should mean, and bizarrely esoteric etymological deconstruction, ultimately smells like a lot of defensive justification for your own prejudices. Why is that the people who object most strongly to the word “homophobia” tend to be the same people who want us assure them that it’s OK to “disapprove” of homosexuality? If the word makes you uncomfortable, because you find it being applied to YOU, then maybe examining your own understanding would be more rewarding than campaigning to have the definition of a perfectly valid word. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/28 "2005-12-01T21:12:53Z")
Must perview: > [@lissener](#): > > . . . more rewarding than campaigning to have the definition of a perfectly valid word **changed**. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/29 "2005-12-01T21:18:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Since I am the OP, the one who started a whole thread on the word, I took it that you meant me. I don’t see how you _don’t_ mean me. But I do not like it when people are overly sensitive on the boards, so I appreciate your efforts to clarify and smooth things over. Onward. > > But maybe I’ll have to start another thread seeking consensus on the definition of the word “you”. 😃 Every now and then, in a thread about gay rights or anti-gay prejudice, you’ll get some asshole who tries to derail the thread by nitpicking the definition of “homophobe.” “The guys who killed Matthew Shepherd weren’t homophobes, because homophobe means you’re afraid of gays, and if they were afraid of him, they’d have run away instead of attacking him!” Shit like that. It’s aggravting enough on its own, and the people who post stuff like that are usually pushing an anti-gay agenda. Anyway, my own definition of the term is pretty much identical to **Diogenes** ’. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/30 "2005-12-01T21:24:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Just to answer the same question that always comes up- if you think homexuality is “immoral” but you don’t actively do anything to hurt homosexul people, you ARE homophobic, you’re just not very intense about. I disagree, for two reasons. First, this strikes me as argument by name-calling. If you disagree with someone, it’s far more intellectually honest to explain what’s wrong with their position than to simply dismiss them by labelling them “phobic” or some such. Second, I think it blurs a useful distinction between those whose opposition to homosexuality is based on irrational fear (“Gays are destroying marriage!” “They’re trying to convert our children!” “Watch out—you’ll catch The Gay”) and those who have a reason for thinking homosexuality is immoral (in which case you might be able to show them where their reasoning is flawed or based on faulty premises). Yes, I know “homophobia” doesn’t necessarily imply a literal phobia. But we all know what a “phobia” is—it’s an extreme, irrational, pathological fear of something—and it’s hard to completely escape that meaning when you talk about “homophobia.” ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/31 "2005-12-01T21:31:56Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > I disagree, for two reasons. > > First, this strikes me as argument by name-calling. If you disagree with someone, it’s far more intellectually honest to explain what’s wrong with their position than to simply dismiss them by labelling them “phobic” or some such. > > Second, I think it blurs a useful distinction between those whose opposition to homosexuality is based on irrational fear (“Gays are destroying marriage!” “They’re trying to convert our children!” “Watch out—you’ll catch The Gay”) and those who have a reason for thinking homosexuality is immoral (in which case you might be able to show them where their reasoning is flawed or based on faulty premises). > > Yes, I know “homophobia” doesn’t necessarily imply a literal phobia. But we all know what a “phobia” is—it’s an extreme, irrational, pathological fear of something—and it’s hard to completely escape that meaning when you talk about “homophobia.” In what way can a dislike of homosexuality based on religious/moral reasons possibly be defined as rational? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/32 "2005-12-01T21:34:43Z")
I apologize. I am obviously reading impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/33 "2005-12-01T22:56:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s aggravting enough on its own Can something be aggravating on its own? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/34 "2005-12-01T23:02:45Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > Can something be aggravating on its own? 😉 Um… yes? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/35 "2005-12-01T23:25:48Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > All this debate about what it _should_ mean, and bizarrely esoteric etymological deconstruction, ultimately smells like a lot of defensive justification for your own prejudices. Why is that the people who object most strongly to the word “homophobia” tend to be the same people who want us assure them that it’s OK to “disapprove” of homosexuality? If the word makes you uncomfortable, because you find it being applied to YOU, then maybe examining your own understanding would be more rewarding than campaigning to have the definition of a perfectly valid word. > > The answer to the OP is a pretty simple one: look it up. > > Are we done here? **lissener** : I don’t usually agree with you on much, but I think you hit the nail on the head this time. “Prejudice against gays” pretty much covers it. > [@Ravenman](#): > > ``` > While we're at it, where's the outrage over the term "genocide?" It combines one Greek and one Indo-European word to make a horrible mish-mash of a term! > > ``` While we’re nit-picking, I don’t think this is the correct way to view it. [Raphael Lemkin](http://www.europaworld.org/issue40/raphaellemkin22601.htm) coined the term modeling it after words like “fratricide” and “homicide”. I know some dictionaries quote the Indo-European root, but I don’t think that’s informative. Saying something is from an Indo-European root is rather meaningless since almost ALL of our words have Indo-European roots (including the Greek word _genos_). The -cide ending comes to us from the latin, _-cida_, killing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/36 "2005-12-02T01:39:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **lissener** : I don’t usually agree with you on much, but I think you hit the nail on the head this time. “Prejudice against gays” pretty much covers it. Now all you need to do is define “prejudice” and when you do you will need to define “irrational”. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/37 "2005-12-02T02:05:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Now all you need to do is define “prejudice” and when you do you will need to define “irrational”. Um, no; all YOU need to do is look them up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/38 "2005-12-02T02:23:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Now all you need to do is define “prejudice” and when you do you will need to define “irrational”. Meh. We can argue about the definition of any word. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/39 "2005-12-02T02:24:49Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, no; all YOU need to do is look them up. Oikas. I apologize for the sarcasm; I’ve been Alt+Tabbing between this thread and a particularly heated pit thread for most of the day, and I got my tones mixed. Let me rephrase: Magiver, no one is debating the definition of those words because they aren’t really ambiguous to most of us. In addition, perfectly acceptable definitions can be found in any current dictionary. To have nearly reached something of a consensus on one word, only to have people who don’t agree with that near consensus lob in what appears pretty unquestionably to be a couple of strawmen–who’s really unclear on what those words mean?–stinks a little bit of sour grapes. At least, of defensiveness. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541/40 "2005-12-02T02:28:14Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Meh. We can argue about the definition of any word. More straw sophistries and poutiness. IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-agree-on-what-homophobia-means/333541.md?page=3)