# Can we all agree that this is reason enough to have the border locked down and secure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466 "2014-06-23T17:57:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/1 "2014-06-23T17:57:53Z")
By “this” I mean the public health concern. In an [interview](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/21/Doctors-Warn-of-Looming-U-S-Public-Health-Crisis-Due-To-Flood-of-Young-Illegal-Immigrants), Dr. Jane Orient, an internal medicine specialist and the Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons had this to say about the threat: > [@](#): > > In an exclusive interview with Breitbart News, Dr. Jane Orient, an internal medicine specialist and the Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), said that by admitting these huge groups of children who come from countries where medical screenings are minimal and hygiene is poor, the United States is at risk for epidemics of serious diseases and viruses that the nation has not seen in years. > > “Tuberculosis (TB) is the single most dangerous disease because it is highly contagious and can be easily picked up at the mall, at a school, or on the bus,” Orient told Breitbart News. “Cases coming from south of the U.S. border can be very resistant to medications. They don’t respond to traditional antibiotics, and the few drugs they may respond to are often toxic, with lots of side effects.” > > “Legal immigrants have always been required to undergo health screenings,” Orient continued, “but these kids coming have no medical screenings and no vaccine records. They’re likely coming here with a number of infectious diseases that will spread like wildfire.” > > \ > > Writing at The Monitor on Friday, Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet, a physician with practices in both Tucson and Dallas, agreed with Orient. She noted that the “invisible travelers” coming across the U.S. border, in addition to TB and measles, include hepatitis, malaria, Chagas disease – a parasitic infection – and dengue fever. > “A public health crisis, the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime, is looming,” Vliet stated. > > Hardest hit by exposures to these difficult-to-treat diseases will be elderly, children, immunosuppressed cancer patients, and patients with chronic lung disease or congestive heart failure. Drug-resistant tuberculosis is the most serious risk, but even diseases like measles can cause severe complications and death. > > “Other illnesses, along with scabies and head lice, also thrive as children are transported by bus and herded into crowded shelters – courtesy of the federal government,” wrote Vliet. “And treatment costs are borne by taxpayers.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/2 "2014-06-23T17:59:23Z")
Why is this more of a concern this year than years past? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/3 "2014-06-23T18:05:08Z")
I would give any credence to an AAPS assessment of health risks. Politics come before science for them. From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > While AAPS describes itself as “non-partisan”,[8] the organization is generally recognized as politically conservative or “ultra-conservative”.[7][9][10][11] AAPS opposes mandatory vaccination,[12] as well as virtually all forms of government intervention in healthcare.[11][13] The AAPS has characterized the effects of the Social Security Act of 1965, which established Medicare and Medicaid, as “evil” and “immoral”,[14] and encouraged member physicians to boycott Medicare and Medicaid.[15] AAPS argues that individuals should purchase medical care directly from doctors, and that there is no right to medical care.[16] The organization requires its members to sign a “declaration of independence” pledging that they will not work with Medicare, Medicaid, or even private insurance companies.[11] > > AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines, criticizing them as a usurpation of physician autonomy and a fascist merger of state and corporate power driven by the pharmaceutical industry.[17] Other procedures that AAPS opposes include abortion[18] and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception.[19] AAPS also opposes electronic medical records[11] as well as any “direct or de facto supervision or control over the practice of medicine by federal officers or employees.”[20] > > On Oct 25, 2008 the AAPS website published an editorial implying that Barack Obama was using Neuro-linguistic Programming, “a covert form of hypnosis”, to coerce people to vote for him in his 2008 presidential campaign.[21] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/4 "2014-06-23T18:05:15Z")
The first line on it’s Wiki page says > [@](#): > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association founded in 1943 to “fight socialized medicine and to fight the government takeover of medicine.” . ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/5 "2014-06-23T18:07:12Z")
I admit, this manufactuversy is a novel twist on “won’t someone think of the children!” I’d be willing to lay money that more US children will get sick as a result of parents skipping childhood vaccinations than because of illegal immigrant epidemics next year. But please don’t let it stop you. Fox News needs to fill space between the “Benghazi”, “Bergdahl,” and IRS e-mail reporting with something. ETA: And to answer the question in the OP: “No.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/6 "2014-06-23T18:07:36Z")
Well, I bet _that_ didn’t go as planned, did it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/7 "2014-06-23T18:08:33Z")
Seems to me this is why we should open up immigration more, not lock down the borders. If we allowed people to come into the US legally then we could health check and process them much better…and help treat their issues before they integrate into our society. Since they are going to come here anyway, that seems a more optimal path. From your cite: > [@](#): > > “Legal immigrants have always been required to undergo health screenings,” Orient continued, “but these kids coming have no medical screenings and no vaccine records. They’re likely coming here with a number of infectious diseases that will spread like wildfire.” I say open the borders, allow freer immigration (and bring in lots of new tax payers) to those who actually want to come here to live, and make it more enticing to those who want to come here to do so through the process legally, so that coming here illegally is a sub-optimal choice for people. Problem solved…multiple problems actually. At least that’s how it seems to me, though I might be a bit biased, since my own family came to the US illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/8 "2014-06-23T18:14:46Z")
Yes, the Conservabots are certainly concerned about infectious diseases! _The Texas Observer_ has a mostly lighthearted article on Republican silliness. (We’re at Ground Zero here.) The dangers of germ-ridden immigrants is one argument that contrasts with [this gem from the Texas GOP platform](http://www.texasobserver.org/wtf-friday-left-gay-alcoholic-heart-san-francisco/): > [@](#): > > **Immunizations:** All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are administered to themselves, or their minor children, without penalty for refusing a vaccine. We oppose any effort by any authority to mandate such vaccines or any medical database that would contain personal records of citizens without their consent. Does not compute. Definitely, immigrants (legal or not) ought to have checkups & immunization (where needed). So does everybody else…even citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/9 "2014-06-23T18:14:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I would **not** give any credence to an AAPS assessment of health risks. Politics come before science for them. From wikipedia: I a word. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/10 "2014-06-23T18:15:16Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > I’d be willing to lay money that more US children will get sick as a result of parents skipping childhood vaccinations than because of illegal immigrant epidemics next year. So, vaccinations are important (which I agree with) to help keep children from getting sick and it spreading to others. But for you, it appears that same concern is unimportant when it comes to trying to prevent deadly infectious diseases from coming into the U.S. Is that right. Similarly, were, in your opinion, the steps to taken at Ellis Island to prevent diseases from entering the U.S. unwise? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/11 "2014-06-23T18:20:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, vaccinations are important (which I agree with) to help keep children from getting sick and it spreading to others. But for you, it appears that same concern is unimportant when it comes to trying to prevent deadly infectious diseases from coming into the U.S. Is that right. Similarly, were, in your opinion, the steps to taken at Ellis Island to prevent diseases from entering the U.S. unwise? Let’s get back to the source of your information, first. Do you stand behind them and their goals? Do you think they are a good source of impartial information? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/12 "2014-06-23T18:20:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why is this more of a concern this year than years past? It has been a concern with illegals doing in for quite a few years now. The reason that it is starting to get more notice is due to the recent activity at the border. Even very liberal senator, Chuck Schumer acknowledges the dangers of mosquito borne illnesses making their way from South America via legal travelers enjoying the World Cup. We spent a great deal of time and effort virtually eradicating diseases like TB. Isn’t that a good result. Should we be nonchalant in preventing its comeback, and the introduction of other highly contagious and deadly diseases? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/13 "2014-06-23T18:24:57Z")
> [@Wiki](#): > > On Oct 25, 2008 the AAPS website published an editorial implying that Barack Obama was using Neuro-linguistic Programming, “a covert form of hypnosis”, to coerce people to vote for him in his 2008 presidential campaign. Well, **magellan01**? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/14 "2014-06-23T18:25:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s get back to the source of your information, first. Do you stand behind them and their goals? Do you think they are a good source of impartial information? Don’t you ever get tired of this old game of loping for conservative leanings and trying to discredit the the facts they relay? Can you share with me which of the claims made be either of the two doctors cited you disagree with. That is fair. Identify them and we can assess their validity. But this sweeping—“B-b-but they’re a conservative organization!”—really doesn’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/15 "2014-06-23T18:26:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > We spent a great deal of time and effort virtually eradicating diseases like TB. Isn’t that a good result. Should we be nonchalant in preventing its comeback, and the introduction of other highly contagious and deadly diseases? The source you based this thread on is against mandatory vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/16 "2014-06-23T18:27:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, **magellan01**? Well, what? If I started a thread about that, I wold feel the need to defend it. Since, I didn’t, perhaps you’d like to talk about Gilligan’s Island. Or Black Holes. Spaghetti recipes? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/17 "2014-06-23T18:27:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Don’t you ever get tired of this old game of loping for conservative leanings and trying to discredit the the facts they relay? Can you share with me which of the claims made be either of the two doctors cited you disagree with. That is fair. Identify them and we can assess their validity. But this sweeping—“B-b-but they’re a conservative organization!”—really doesn’t fly. Do you support what they stand for or not? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/18 "2014-06-23T18:32:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, vaccinations are important (which I agree with) to help keep children from getting sick and it spreading to others. But for you, it appears that same concern is unimportant when it comes to trying to prevent deadly infectious diseases from coming into the U.S. Is that right. Similarly, were, in your opinion, the steps to taken at Ellis Island to prevent diseases from entering the U.S. unwise? When my folks came over, health exams were just about the only criteria for admission. (I think the obviously “feeble minded” were sent back, too.) I approve. The group being discussed in the OP is definitely the children recently coming over from Central America. Who are in US custody–where they really ought to be be getting health care. I also approve. [Sourcewatch quotes](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons) Mother Jones on the source of the OP: > [@](#): > > The publication’s archives present a kind of alternate-universe scientific world, in which abortion causes breast cancer and vaccines cause autism, but HIV does not cause AIDS. Cutting carbon emissions represents a grave threat to global health (because environmental regulation would make people poorer and, consequently, sicker) … The organization opposes some of the most accepted practices in health care, including mandatory vaccine regulations. Peer review, a long-standing hospital practice that helps doctors learn from and prevent errors, is viewed as the source of great injustice by AAPS, which fights attempts to micromanage doctors with such bureaucratic nuisances as medical evidence about what works and what doesn’t. Computers, too, are an ominous threat. The organization has resisted the use of electronic medical records—which, naturally, represents an attempt by the government to acquire masses of private information about American citizens. (AAPS’ executive director claims to keep all her patient notes in longhand.) I do _not_ approve of these guys… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/19 "2014-06-23T18:38:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Don’t you ever get tired of this old game of loping for conservative leanings and trying to discredit the the facts they relay? Can you share with me which of the claims made be either of the two doctors cited you disagree with. That is fair. Identify them and we can assess their validity. But this sweeping—“B-b-but they’re a conservative organization!”—really doesn’t fly. They are beyond conservative-they are nutcases with dangerous ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/20 "2014-06-23T18:44:45Z")
Also, while not everybody who crosses the border from Mexico is actually from Mexico, the Mexicans themselves have done a better job vaccinating kids from [measles](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS), [diptheria/pertussis/tetanus](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.IDPT/countries), and other diseases than we have. Their state run health system made vaccinations free and widely available, so parents took advantage. And considering the outbreaks we’ve had among our own citizens, you have to wonder if other developed countries have to start worrying about us instead. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466.md?page=2)