# Can we all agree that this is reason enough to have the border locked down and secure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466 "2014-06-23T17:57:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/81 "2014-06-24T18:01:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m a legal immigrant to this country, and this is nonsense. For most illegal immigration source countries, there basically is no “turn” to wait for. Mexican immigrants with no immediate family ties to US citizens have no chance of being allowed to immigrate legally. > > FTR, I am not in favor of an open border. I don’t really have much of a problem with the way things work right now. _Since claiming the top spot among all immigrant groups in the 1980 census, the Mexican immigrant population in the United States has continued to outsize other immigrant groups. In 2008, there were 11.4 million Mexican immigrants in the United States, accounting for 30.1 percent of all U.S. immigrants and 10 percent of all Mexicans. Over half of all Mexican immigrants reside in the United States illegally._ My boss waited 6 years to get approval to emigrate here from India. Now owns a multi-million dollar business and votes Republican. He abhors the notion that millions will get amnesty for coming here illegally when he patiently waited for his number to get called. The current system works relatively well. Open borders is a lazy answer to the problems of _other countries_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/82 "2014-06-24T18:01:59Z")
Am I to presume that something you posted refutes something I said? ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/83 "2014-06-24T18:06:23Z")
I have always lived close to the U.S.-Mexico Border, so perhaps I am biased. The border will always be a porous place. Even when security is at its worst, thousands of people commute from Mexico to the United States, and from the U.S. to Mexico every day for work, ranging from housekeepers to mechanical engineers. Billions of dollars in legal trade pass through that border in both directions. When I hear people say “close the border,” I have to wonder if they are thinking at all. Yes, lets just cut off a few percentage points of our GDP and put a few million Americans out of work! Before anyone really cared about the distinctions between legal and illegal immigrants, public health (often with a strong eugenic touch) was the main impetus for border controls. There are a few academic books on the subject such as John McKiernan’s “Fevered Measures.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/84 "2014-06-24T18:08:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Part of me desperately wants to ask what context the teacher tossed out that nugget of idiocy in, but another part has no wish to know at all. Honestly, I don’t really recall entirely. I believe it was almost an aside during a mild rant about the decline of American culture epitomized by us unruly kids. He was just “rationally” pointing out, as a man of “science,” certain realities about the world. I was only in his class for two weeks because my regular teacher was ill, but this was no shit the favorite teacher in our middle school. He acted in tv commercials on the side in the summer, raised chicks in the classroom as a science project and was the only male teacher. Hence his coolness factor. I’ve always been rather proud of myself for pegging him as an egotistic douchebag, even at that tender age. But this was in a lily-white, working class suburb of Detroit which was without a doubt the most racist community I’ve ever lived in. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/85 "2014-06-24T18:43:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I say open the borders, allow freer immigration (and bring in lots of new tax payers) to those who actually want to come here to live, and make it more enticing to those who want to come here to do so through the process legally, so that coming here illegally is a sub-optimal choice for people. I’m in complete agreement with XT. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/86 "2014-06-24T18:43:36Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > . . . but this was no shit the favorite teacher in our middle school. > > \ > > But this was in a lily-white, working class suburb of Detroit which was without a doubt the most racist community I’ve ever lived in. No coincidence, then. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/87 "2014-06-24T18:49:55Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > My boss waited 6 years to get approval to emigrate here from India. Now owns a multi-million dollar business and votes Republican. He abhors the notion that millions will get amnesty for coming here illegally when he patiently waited for his number to get called. Poor guy. It’s a shame he cannot be proud of his own accomplishments and allows himself to feel lessened by the experiences of others. I hope he can someday find a way to be happy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/88 "2014-06-24T18:56:09Z")
No. Filthy diseased foreigners is low on the list of arguments to deal with immigration. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/89 "2014-06-24T19:16:33Z")
Hmmm … _Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!_ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/90 "2014-06-24T19:43:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Same goes for Gaza. Israel has walled off the entire area and there’s a million checkpoints at what few gates the wall has. Boats can’t get away with anything, either. > > Result ? Tunnels. Tunnels everywhere. Sounds like [San Diego](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/04/us-usa-mexico-drugtunnel-idUSBREA331DG20140404). ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/91 "2014-06-24T20:47:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Chagas disease are endemic to kissing bugs, which do not live in North America so it’s not going to get established in the US. Errr…apparently not the case; **Wikipedia on cone nosed kissing bug:** > [@](#): > > These bugs usually share shelter with nesting vertebrates, from which they suck blood. In areas where Chagas disease occurs (from the southern United States to northern Argentina), all triatomine species are potential vectors of the Chagas disease parasite Trypanosoma cruzi, but only those species (such as Triatoma infestans and Rhodnius prolixus) that are well adapted to living with humans are considered important vectors. A friend of mine from Arizona, where they are indigenous, has much to say about these beasties. To hear him tell it, mosquitoes are downright benign by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/92 "2014-06-24T20:51:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hmmm … > > _Give me your tired, your poor, > Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, > The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. > Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, > I lift my lamp beside the golden door!_ Lady Liberty, that commie ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/93 "2014-06-24T20:53:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hmmm … > > _Give me your tired, your poor, > Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, > The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. > Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, > I lift my lamp beside the golden door!_ I’ve quoted those lines to anti-immigrant people in my family. It shuts them up…for a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/94 "2014-06-24T21:02:16Z")
You could go with [Lou Reed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7z3TPwOT31g#t=76), then: > [@](#): > > Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor > I’ll piss on 'em. > That’s what the Statue of Bigotry says ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/95 "2014-06-24T21:11:38Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Poor guy. It’s a shame he cannot be proud of his own accomplishments and allows himself to feel lessened by the experiences of others. I hope he can someday find a way to be happy. Or, perhaps, his experience is more valuable than your armchair indignation. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/96 "2014-06-24T21:13:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Am I to presume that something you posted refutes something I said? Well, it sure doesn’t help your argument that Mexicans have a hard time immigrating to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/97 "2014-06-24T21:19:28Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Well, it sure doesn’t help your argument that Mexicans have a hard time immigrating to the United States. How do you feel about the topic of this thread(closing the border for health reasons) and the sources used to support the OP’s position? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/98 "2014-06-24T21:24:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Well, it sure doesn’t help your argument that Mexicans have a hard time immigrating to the United States. He didn’t make that argument. I think that means the answer to his question is “No.” ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/99 "2014-06-24T21:25:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How do you feel about the topic of this thread(closing the border for health reasons) and the sources used to support the OP’s position? Thread went off-topic long before I chimed in, but I’ll be glad to share my thoughts: It’s obvious as all f\*\*\*nuts that having tens of thousands of undocumented people secretly enter the US poses a broader national health threat. Especially given the deplorable conditions in which they had to endure to get here. How and why that is a justification for a border-less non-country is the work of those among this thread who advocate such a pedestrian policy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/100 "2014-06-24T21:35:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s obvious as all f\*\*\*nuts that having tens of thousands of undocumented people secretly enter the US poses a broader national health threat. Especially given the deplorable conditions in which they had to endure to get here. It’s so obvious the evidence doesn’t even need to reflect it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466.md?page=6)