# Can we all agree that this is reason enough to have the border locked down and secure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466 "2014-06-23T17:57:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/101 "2014-06-24T21:36:03Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Thread went off-topic long before I chimed in, but I’ll be glad to share my thoughts: > > It’s obvious as all f\*\*\*nuts that having tens of thousands of undocumented people secretly enter the US poses a broader national health threat. Especially given the deplorable conditions in which they had to endure to get here. > > How and why that is a justification for a border-less non-country is the work of those among this thread who advocate such a pedestrian policy. Something that f\*\*\*nuts obvious should be rather easy to document, right? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/102 "2014-06-24T21:39:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He didn’t make that argument. I think that means the answer to his question is “No.” Well then, let’s break this down: > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > For most illegal immigration source countries, there basically is no “turn” to wait for. Mexican immigrants with no immediate family ties to US citizens have no chance of being allowed to immigrate legally. - For most illegal immigration source countries, there basically is no “turn” to wait for.\* And of the 11.4 million whose turn has already come? That 11.4 million which represents 30.1% of all immigrants in this country? \* Mexican immigrants with no immediate family ties to US citizens have no chance of being allowed to immigrate legally.\* This is odd. These immigrants-in-waiting have family ties to US citizens. So, as a foundational premise, these US citizens once lived in Mexico and somehow magically are now US citizens. But they of course had “zero chance” to immigrate legally. Something does not add up to your assertion that the group which represents 30.1% of all immigrants in this country have zero chance of immigrating legally. If family ties are required for legal immigration, which I am fairly certain is not true (doesn’t Mexico have geniuses like everyone else?), how did the family tied to them get legal immigrant status? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/103 "2014-06-24T21:46:20Z")
That doesn’t sound like breaking it down. It sounds like changing the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/104 "2014-06-24T21:58:19Z")
Your own cite (don’t know what it is because you didn’t provide a source) shows that half of those 11.4 million are _illegal_ immigrants. Of the remaining ~6 million, most have ties to people who arrived when we had a more liberal Mexican migration policy. A lot of the rest have family ties here because there has been cross-border pollination since the annexation of the Southwest. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/105 "2014-06-24T22:00:07Z")
Has anyone ever linked immigration (legal and otherwise) to free-market thinking, i.e. if the market should be completely free, then let people with a demand for labor freely deal with people who have a supply of labor. Seems to me someone who subscribed to a “free markets above all” philosophy would want to knock down barriers to immigration, no? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/106 "2014-06-24T22:03:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s so obvious the evidence doesn’t even need to reflect it. From an article citing statistics contained in a study by the US/Mexico Border Counties Coalition, released March 2006. > **[Illegal Immigrants | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/latin-america-and-caribbean/chilean-history/illegal-immigrants)** > > Chapter 5Illegal Aliens BARRIERS TO LEGAL IMMIGRATION: TIME AND MONEY According to Stuart Anderson and David Miller, in Legal Immigrants: Waiting Forever (May 2006, https://www.competeamerica.org/resource/h1b\_glance/NFAP\_Study.pdf), "those who 'play... **If the 24 U.S. counties bordering Mexico were the 51st state, how would they compare to the rest of the nation?** \*2nd in incidence of tuberculosis \* _2nd in unemployment (5th with San Diego County included)_ _3rd in deaths due to hepatitis_ \* 5th in diabetes-related deaths\* _7th in incidence of adult diabetes_ _12th in incidence of AIDS_ \* 51st in percent of population that has completed high school (50th with San Diego)\* \* 51st in per capita income (40th with San Diego County included)\* \* 51st in number of health care professionals\* All of which supports my initial claim before it was side-tracked by others: that it will be inordinately expensive and a national health risk to open the borders and allow anyone to come here that wants to. Those who advocate open borders and “free healthcare” for all are doing so on an emotionally-driven, humanitarian premise. Which is fine, provided we are willing to pay more, receive less, and put ourselves at a greater health risk. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/107 "2014-06-24T22:06:13Z")
So, instead of responding to the (always expected) cries of ‘But…BUT A CONSERVATIVE SAID IT!!! so it cannot be true!’, I did some actual looking into the issue. Some quotes: > [@](#): > > A June, 2009 article in the New England Journal of Medicine noted that a majority (57.8%) of all new cases of tuberculosis in the United States in 2007 were diagnosed in foreign-born persons From [here](http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration-and-public-health)\*. So I went to look. And, lo and behold, I found [this](http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/9/1250.full). That article is about the ethical considerations of reporting research results regarding undocumented immigrants. That article has lots of footnotes. A quotes: > [@](#): > > The implications for public health are clear. The American Thoracic Society, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Infectious Diseases Society of America list the following 3 of the 5 most important challenges for successful control of TB in the United States: (1) prevalence of TB among foreign-born persons who reside in the United States, (2) delays in the detection and reporting of cases of pulmonary TB, and (3) deficiencies in the protection of contacts of persons with infectious TB [29]. The results of the study by Achkar et al. [4] suggest that the reduction of barriers to health care services for undocumented immigrants may help confront these challenges. From the original article on documented vs. undocumented: > [@](#): > > Results. Among 194 subjects with newly diagnosed pulmonary TB, 61 (31%) were US born, 62 (32%) were documented foreign-born persons, and **71 (37%) were undocumented foreign-born persons. Undocumented foreign-born persons presented with significantly higher frequencies of cough (P=.020) and hemoptysis (P=.012) and had a significantly longer median duration of symptoms, compared with US-born persons (8 vs. 4 weeks; P=.023). No statistically significant differences between documented foreign-born and US-born persons were observed.** Multivariate analysis revealed that undocumented status (compared with being US born; adjusted OR, 4.1; 95% confidence interval, 1.7–10.2; P=.002) and being unemployed (adjusted OR, 2.2; 95% CI, 1.1–4.5; P=.023) were independently associated with a prolonged symptom duration (i.e., 8 weeks). So, the rate in undocumented workers is higher and the duration of symptoms is longer. Additionally, documented workers results matched those of born citizens. Now, of course, I fully expect czarcasm et al. to claim that the CDC, the American Thoracic Society, the Journal of the American Medical Association and the Infectious Diseases Society of America are biased, unreliable sources. Note, the above only concerns TB. However, I am willing to bet that the same holds for other infectious diseases. So there is an issue. An interesting question would be how many of the reported TB cases by citizens are caused by contact with undocumented workers with TB, though I imagine that is a hard thing to track. Slee FTR, I am all for immigration with a few small caveats. One being no free services until a certain amount of time in country and paying taxes is met. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/108 "2014-06-24T22:08:44Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > So, instead of responding to the (always expected) cries of ‘But…BUT A CONSERVATIVE SAID IT!!! so it cannot be true!’, I did some actual looking into the issue. You failed to observe the bits where people showed the claims in the OP are not true. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/109 "2014-06-24T22:29:05Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > All of which supports my initial claim before it was side-tracked by others: that it will be inordinately expensive and a national health risk to open the borders and allow anyone to come here that wants to. Since it didn’t work the first time: nobody has advocated open borders. Nobody has advocated open borders. Nobody has advocated open borders. A couple of posters have said immigration restrictions should be loosened ( **XT** said the border should be more open, but in context it was obvious he was not talking about an open border as such). You are arguing against a strawman or a misunderstanding. > [@](#): > > Those who advocate open borders That’d be nobody in this thread. > [@](#): > > and “free healthcare” for all are doing so on an emotionally-driven, humanitarian premise. I’m not seeing the downside of that. > [@](#): > > Which is fine, provided we are willing to pay more, receive less, and put ourselves at a greater health risk. “We are willing to pay more, receive less, and put ourselves at a greater health risk” should be the motto of the U.S. health care system. And you still haven’t actually demonstrated the danger the OP’s “source” talked about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/110 "2014-06-24T22:36:43Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > **If the 24 U.S. counties bordering Mexico were the 51st state, how would they compare to the rest of the nation?** Those places suck. You should try to get Mexico to take them off your hands. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/111 "2014-06-25T14:59:33Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > From an article citing statistics contained in a study by the US/Mexico Border Counties Coalition, released March 2006. > > [Illegal Immigrants | Encyclopedia.com](http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Illegal_immigrants.aspx) > > **If the 24 U.S. counties bordering Mexico were the 51st state, how would they compare to the rest of the nation?** > > \*2nd in incidence of tuberculosis > > - … [snipped] > > All of which supports my initial claim before it was side-tracked by others: that it will be inordinately expensive and a national health risk to open the borders and allow anyone to come here that wants to. Those who advocate open borders and “free healthcare” for all are doing so on an emotionally-driven, humanitarian premise. Which is fine, provided we are willing to pay more, receive less, and put ourselves at a greater health risk. How does poverty and poor health among U.S. residents prove anything about open borders? The _colonias_ in the border counties are not much more than third-world shantytowns, frequently with inadequate or nonexistent sewer systems and lack of potable water, so of course disease is much more prevalent. However, the colonias date back to the 1950s, and most residents are U.S. citizens. These are our own people who are unemployed and living without ready access to health care. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/112 "2014-06-25T15:23:10Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > From an article citing statistics contained in a study by the US/Mexico Border Counties Coalition, released March 2006. > > [Illegal Immigrants | Encyclopedia.com](http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Illegal_immigrants.aspx) > > **If the 24 U.S. counties bordering Mexico were the 51st state, how would they compare to the rest of the nation?** > > \*2nd in incidence of tuberculosis > \* > _2nd in unemployment (5th with San Diego County included)_ > > _3rd in deaths due to hepatitis_ > \* > 5th in diabetes-related deaths\* > > _7th in incidence of adult diabetes_ > > _12th in incidence of AIDS_ > \* > 51st in percent of population that has completed high school (50th with San Diego)\* > \* > 51st in per capita income (40th with San Diego County included)\* > \* > 51st in number of health care professionals\* > > All of which supports my initial claim before it was side-tracked by others: that it will be inordinately expensive and a national health risk to open the borders and allow anyone to come here that wants to. Those who advocate open borders and “free healthcare” for all are doing so on an emotionally-driven, humanitarian premise. Which is fine, provided we are willing to pay more, receive less, and put ourselves at a greater health risk. (1) You are citing the Border Counties Alliance, whose _raison d’etre_ is bitching about immigration. Second, you don’t seem to understand your own argument. (2) “Border counties” are poor _doesn’t tell us anything_. First, those places are mostly desert, so it stands to reason that they are poor. Second, your source excludes San Diego County, because… well, because including it blows up their argument. (3) People in border counties are _already in the United States_. They are not new immigrants. (4) Even if these statistics were helpful, undocumented workers _don’t stay in border counties_. There’s no work there (as your own cite suggests) and lots and lots of border patrol agents. (5) Finally, even taking all your figures at face value and pretending they are relevant, they still bear no relationship to the OP, which is about an imaginary _looming public health crisis_, not a mild uptick in health issues. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/113 "2014-06-25T18:52:46Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If family ties are required for legal immigration, which I am fairly certain is not true (doesn’t Mexico have geniuses like everyone else?), how did the family tied to them get legal immigrant status? You are wrong. **RNTB** is talking about _family-based immigration_, which is how the vast majority of people legally immigrate to the US. You must have a US citizen relative or Resident Alien relative to immigrate under this system. How long it takes you to legalize depends on the nature of your relationship and whether or not your relative is a citizen or Resident Alien. If you have no relationship that meets this criteria, you cannot legally immigrate under the family-based system. Period. As to how their relatives got their status? They could be born here, have gotten their green cards because they are asylees, they got their green card because they are married to a US citizen, they were able to legalize back when you could pay a fine and stay in the country… You know, _under the family-based system._ Cite for options for relatives of US citizens: [http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens](http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens) Cite for options for relatives of Resident Aliens:[http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-green-card-holders-permanent-residents](http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-green-card-holders-permanent-residents) Further, there are only a certain number of visas available every year and that number varies on your country of origin, the nature of your relationship, and the immigrant status of your relative. (Except for spouses of US citizens, for which there is no limit.) Waits can be years’ long. For example, the wait for brothers/sisters of US citizens can be 15 years-long, in effect making it impossible. While I’m at it, “amnesty” doesn’t mean that undocumented immigrants go to the front of the line, it means they have the opportunity to be petitioned for and pay a fine and stay in the country while their applications are in process. They still are subject to the same wait times as everybody else. They don’t jump any line. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/114 "2014-06-25T19:01:06Z")
“Hey, if we all can’t agree that illegals are undeserving criminals, can we at least agree that they’re diseased impure vermin?” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/115 "2014-06-25T19:16:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Seems to me someone who subscribed to a “free markets above all” philosophy would want to knock down barriers to immigration, no? If you’re a construction worker complaining about unchecked immigration destroying your livelihood then you’re just a pampered first worlder who needs to put his nose to the grind stone and learn to live in the 21st century. Protectionism is wrong! If you’re a doctor or other professional who gets to shut our their foreign competition or put up walls around your industry with inflated accreditation monopolies to lower your supply, well yeah, that’s just safeguarding our way of life. Can’t expose our best and brightest to the deprivations of the free market, their income would plummet to third world levels. Then what’s the point of all those insanely expensive schools? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/116 "2014-06-25T19:38:17Z")
> [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](#): > > You are wrong. **RNTB** is talking about _family-based immigration_, which is how the vast majority of people legally immigrate to the US. In my own words, his argument is that it is virtually impossible to immigrate to the United States outside of the family-based immigration system, and thus illegal aliens are morally justified in coming here illegally. The first is not true, as there are options to immigrate outside of the family-based system, and the second is debateable, both on the grounds that entering a country illegally is acceptable and also with regard to \*our obligation \*to allow them to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/117 "2014-06-25T19:42:04Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If you’re a construction worker complaining about unchecked immigration destroying your livelihood then you’re just a pampered first worlder who needs to put his nose to the grind stone and learn to live in the 21st century. Protectionism is wrong! > > If you’re a doctor or other professional who gets to shut our their foreign competition or put up walls around your industry with inflated accreditation monopolies to lower your supply, well yeah, that’s just safeguarding our way of life. Can’t expose our best and brightest to the deprivations of the free market, their income would plummet to third world levels. Then what’s the point of all those insanely expensive schools? I don’t quite see this as responding to my question, but okay. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/118 "2014-06-25T20:21:47Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The first is not true, as there are options to immigrate outside of the family-based system, and the second is debateable, both on the grounds that entering a country illegally is acceptable and also with regard to \*our obligation \*to allow them to stay. What options would those be? Mexican nationals are not eligible for the green card lottery; that leaves the employment-based preferences and the “special” categories. Those latter are categories such as international adoptions, victims of human trafficking, Iraqi translators, and other very narrow groups. Employment-based immigration is limited to 140,000 people a year (all countries combined), with preference given to genius-level scientists and researchers, managers of multinational corporations, certain skilled professionals, and people with money to invest. People in ordinary jobs (farmworkers, electricians, carpenters, welders, pretty much anything blue-collar) are not eligible for an employment-based immigrant visa, no matter how long they stand in line. So exactly how could your average Mexican citizen who lacks close family in the U.S. legally immigrate? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/119 "2014-06-25T20:32:15Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > What options would those be? > > Mexican nationals are not eligible for the green card lottery; that leaves the employment-based preferences and the “special” categories. Those latter are categories such as international adoptions, victims of human trafficking, Iraqi translators, and other very narrow groups. > > Employment-based immigration is limited to 140,000 people a year (all countries combined), with preference given to genius-level scientists and researchers, managers of multinational corporations, certain skilled professionals, and people with money to invest. People in ordinary jobs (farmworkers, electricians, carpenters, welders, pretty much anything blue-collar) are not eligible for an employment-based immigrant visa, no matter how long they stand in line. > > So exactly how could your average Mexican citizen who lacks close family in the U.S. legally immigrate? The green card lottery is specifically for countries deemed to have low rates of immigration to the United States, and only offers 55,000 residential visas a year. So, I would tell the average Mexican what I would tell the average resident of any other country. You need to win the lottery or prove yourself exceptionally worthy such that an American employer would sponsor you. Actually, I would probably advise him or her to try and sneak into the US illegally because we do not enforce the law anymore. Shame on us. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466/120 "2014-06-25T20:58:35Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Is this idea that we should have open borders and free healthcare for all founded on anything other than an emotional humanitarian appeal? That would be enough, but no. Disease is everyone’s enemy, and for-profit health care is more expensive than “free healthcare for all”. And a world where capital can freely cross borders but people can’t is inherently economically unbalanced. > [@Stringbean](#): > > Are we unaware of why we are a sovereign nation and how expensive it is to just keep letting people in? That’s just blaming the victim. We are the ones who exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor, we [tax them for services they’ll never receive](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ei=5090&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ex=1270353600&partner=kmarx&pagewanted=all&position=&_r=0), then we demonize them as illegals so we can feel morally superior about our abuse and exploitation of them. It’s not “expensive”; it’s profitable. That’s why we do it. > [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s an insult to the people who legally wait their turn to come to this country, and truly make the most of it. It would take a century or so for the vast majority of Mexicans to immigrate legally; the laws are carefully designed to make it effectively impossible for them without openly forbidding them. We want them here, but we want them here illegally. If they were here legally we’d have to treat them better after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-all-agree-that-this-is-reason-enough-to-have-the-border-locked-down-and-secure/691466.md?page=7)