# Can we build a machine that will function in lava?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 23, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742 "2009-06-23T17:49:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/1 "2009-06-23T17:49:30Z")
Got to thinking about this last week… can we build a machine that will operate at red-hot (or yellow-hot) temperatures? I gather that conventional combustion wouldn’t work, because everything would be hot, and the fire wouldn’t be contained, but would pure mechanical parts like gears and struts work? What about electronics? How viscous is lava?
---
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/2 "2009-06-23T18:15:51Z")
Aside from thermal considerations, if it’s going to be actually immersed in lava, it has to not react chemically with molten silica. My guess would be that iridium would be a good material to start with.
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/3 "2009-06-23T18:19:44Z")
I try not to respond to GQ with inanities. But I have to say, I mis-read the thread title and thought the OP was asking, “Can we build a machine that will function in **Iowa**?” And I was all, “What’s wrong with Iowa?”
Carry on.
---
### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/4 "2009-06-23T18:26:28Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> I try not to respond to GQ **with inanities**.
😕
It’s a legit engineering question, IMO.
---
### Author:  [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/5 "2009-06-23T18:27:56Z")
[Carbonite and low-power deflector shields.](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mustafar_panning_droid)
---
### Author:  [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/6 "2009-06-23T18:29:34Z")
The melting point of platinum is 1768.3 °C which is well above the temperature of lava. It comes down to what it would do I guess and how long would it last. There have to be other materials that can take the heat too.
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/7 "2009-06-23T18:31:08Z")
> [@bordelond](#):
>
> 😕
>
> It’s a legit engineering question, IMO.
Is my comment that confusing? It seems pretty clear to me that I am the one posting the inanity! Not the OP.
---
### Author:  [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/8 "2009-06-23T18:39:45Z")
A “subterrane,” up lavascope.
---
### Author:  [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/9 "2009-06-23T18:42:19Z")
Are there any lava flows that go from the surface to depths lower than Challenger Deep?
---
### Author:  [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/10 "2009-06-23T19:04:04Z")
It seems that you’d need a good insulator, whatever you want the thing to do. I know [Aerogel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel) is a good insulator.
---
### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/11 "2009-06-23T20:06:00Z")
IIRC, there are ceramics that can withstand \>2000K. Tungsten melts at 3695K. So I think you can make mechanisms out of these.
Tungsten is conductive, so you can use electricity. I think you can even make motors and solenoids.
As for _electronics_, maybe vacuum tubes can be made to operate at these temperatures? I don’t think any semiconductor works at such temperatures, not even diamond.
Of course, if you don’t need it to operate in lava indefinitely, all you need is good insulation and a large mass to act as a heat (cold) reservoir. A phase-change material would be best (e.g. a block of ice).
---
### Author:  [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/12 "2009-06-23T20:14:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Is my comment that confusing? It seems pretty clear to me that I am the one posting the inanity! Not the OP.
I dunno - you ever been to Iowa? 🙂
---
### Author:  [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/13 "2009-06-23T20:21:21Z")
We’re talking 2000 degree F which is about twice the temperature of Venus. The Soviets sent some probes to Venus and they didnt last long in the heat. [Venera-9 was able for function for an hour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera_9) before the heat broke it.
I really dont think you can make a usable machine that will function in lava. Perhaps some kind of mechanically powered novelty, but not much more.
---
### Author:  [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/14 "2009-06-23T23:21:35Z")
The difference between Venera and this theoretical machine is that this machine doesn’t have to meet the weight and power requirements to fit on a spacecraft.
Of course, these sorts of questions are always too open-ended to answer. I envision some sort of submersible drilling rig. Power/coolant conduits to the surface would work, and the internals could be cooled by an external coolant source. What requirements would this machine have to have?
---
### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/15 "2009-06-24T02:27:38Z")
> [@ivn1188](#):
>
> Power/coolant conduits to the surface would work, and the internals could be cooled by an external coolant source.
You’re going to have to keep the surface of the machine (and those conduits) above the temperature at which lava congeals.
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/16 "2009-06-24T04:29:22Z")
> [@scr4](#):
>
> IIRC, there are ceramics that can withstand \>2000K. Tungsten melts at 3695K. So I think you can make mechanisms out of these.
>
> Tungsten is conductive, so you can use electricity. I think you can even make motors and solenoids.
>
> As for _electronics_, maybe vacuum tubes can be made to operate at these temperatures? I don’t think any semiconductor works at such temperatures, not even diamond.
What about insulators?
Hmm. Electric motors, relays and electromechanical parts, gears and bearings… is there anything like a lubricant that would work at these temperatures, or would it be roller-bearings only?
> [@scr4](#):
>
> Of course, if you don’t need it to operate in lava indefinitely, all you need is good insulation and a large mass to act as a heat (cold) reservoir. A phase-change material would be best (e.g. a block of ice).
No, no, I want it to operate indefinitely at a nice yellow-hot (or whatever lava is) temperature. It shouldn’t _need_ insulation.
I suppose that the ‘operate immersed in lava’ might be a second-stage requirement.
---
### Author:  [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/17 "2009-06-24T05:43:12Z")
I thought we did this. I seem to recall a thread from 6-7 years ago about a real life probe someone was trying to build or had built to dig into the Earth’s mantle. Could have been a dream, let me do some searching…
---
### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/18 "2009-06-24T12:54:19Z")
Would a active cooling (refrigeration) system be OK, where heat from the core was ‘pumped’ to the outside and transferred to the lava so the heart of the machine and for that matter the energy storage that is used can be at a lower temperature? That would also solve the problem of the device being encased in rock.
---
### Author:  [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/19 "2009-06-24T13:31:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Would a active cooling (refrigeration) system be OK, where heat from the core was ‘pumped’ to the outside and transferred to the lava so the heart of the machine and for that matter the energy storage that is used can be at a lower temperature? That would also solve the problem of the device being encased in rock.
For refrigeration to work the system needs to be able to radiate it’s stored up heat into the outside environment. Heat transfers from the higher temperature coolant or heatsink into the lower temperature air or water, thus cooling the system. In this case though, the outside environment is lava which is so much hotter than anything the machine will be producing that the heat transfer would go the wrong way. Instead of radiating heat your coolant or heatsink will absorb it and make your problem even worse.
---
### Author:  [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742/20 "2009-06-24T14:15:53Z")
> [@bordelond](#):
>
> 😕
>
> It’s a legit engineering question, IMO.
Her comment isn’t to be read:
Respond to GQ-with-inanities.
It is to be read (moving the words around a little):
respond with inanities to GQ.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-build-a-machine-that-will-function-in-lava/500742.md?page=2)