# Can we Define "Spoiler" Please? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820 "2012-04-24T17:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/41 "2012-04-26T13:40:14Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > And, regarding **Joey P** ’s point, that spoiler tags should have some indication of what’s inside them, that’s covered in the Guidelines that are specific for Cafe Society: [Guidelines](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6769947#post6769947) We could add something to the General Guidelines, as well. That’s wonderful. Like I originally asked, could moderators use those General Guidelines as license to use a bit stronger force when dealing with those who are using (or not using, depending on the situation) spoiler boxes improperly? I’m not asking for warnings or suspensions or anything, but just a “C’mon **IdiotPosterX** , could you please use a little common sense? Guidelines on how to use spoiler boxes is posted for all to see in our General Guidelines thread, but it’s not that hard to figure out that posting a spoiler box with absolutely no indication as to what’s inside of it doesn’t do anybody any good\*.” \*Or substitute “posting idle speculation based on nothing more than what we already know has happened isn’t a spoiler - it’s just speculation”, or whatever the hell else people are doing to make spoiler boxes the bane of all our existences. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/42 "2012-04-26T14:37:39Z")
Right. But the fact remains that we get these threads that begin with a long-drawn out explanation of exactly what spoiler level we’re trying to maintain in the thread, and those explanations then are open to interpretation, and not always written well, and sometimes they are even quite rambling and incomprehensible. 😉 If we had a basic definition of “Spoiler” that includes what we, at this board, think of when we use the word, and what it does/does not include; plus some understood levels of openness that could be quickly referenced, with concise well-written explanations in the Guidelines, I really think we could avoid a lot of bickering. In the example I gave in Post 14, referring the poster to CK’s excellent Cafe Guidelines link, would really not have solved the problem; as there would still have been the question of whether this “counted” as a Spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/43 "2012-04-26T15:22:57Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I feel that once the previews have aired that should be allowed to be discussed and speculating what’s going to happen in next week’s show (not just in House, but in general) should be allowed. I’m one of those who consider “next time on …” type previews to be spoilers, but I think it should be up to the OP to establish whether that is the case for any particular thread. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/44 "2012-04-26T22:01:31Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > If we had a basic definition of “Spoiler” that includes what we, at this board, think of when we use the word, and what it does/does not include; plus some understood levels of openness that could be quickly referenced, with concise well-written explanations in the Guidelines, I really think we could avoid a lot of bickering. In the past, when we’ve discussed this, we (and by that I mean the whole gang involved in discussion) weren’t able to come up with any useful guidelines. It’s far too personal and individual a matter, and pretty much in the eye of the beholder . We’ve had people who DIDN’T know the ending of PSYCHO, and were dismayed to find that everyone else thinks it’s pretty much as well known as the ending of the Iliad. OMG, you mean Troy loses???A prime example of why a definition wouldn’t do it: one might think that the cast of a movie would be OK to reveal, since it’s in all the publicity etc. However, there are cases where there’s a “surprise” appearance by some star – or some actor/character from an earlier episdoe of the series – that would be a spoiler. Our conclusion back then was basically reduced to common sense and common courtesy. We want to make posters aware that others may not want to have the experience spoiled, so we ask people to please be considerate and think about using spoiler tags when appropriate. Of course, the current discussion and current CS mods could certainly change that. I’m just the old fart recalling the old days. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/45 "2012-04-26T22:46:58Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Our conclusion back then was basically reduced to common sense and common courtesy. We want to make posters aware that others may not want to have the experience spoiled, so we ask people to please be considerate and think about using spoiler tags when appropriate. > > Of course, the current discussion and current CS mods could certainly change that. I’m just the old fart recalling the old days. Actually, I said just this back in post #27: > [@twickster](#): > > Overall comment: we’re not going to make a new set of rules about spoilers. We ask that people use their common sense, we ask that people be courteous – and we ask that people remember there is no hard and fast rule that will solve every conflict in every possible situation. > > **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator **Ellen Cherry** and **Marley23** have indicated on the mod loop that they are happy to let this be the final statement by the current Cafe Society mods. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/46 "2012-04-28T18:31:40Z")
Stay tuned for scenes from next week’s thread where we find out that the spoiler tag doesn’t work with Tapatalk! ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/47 "2012-04-28T19:02:46Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > Stay tuned for scenes from next week’s thread where we find out that the spoiler tag doesn’t work with Tapatalk! Thanks for ruining that for me…we have spoiler tags for a reason…jerk. (And a 😃 so I don’t get a warning for the ‘jerk’ comment because sometimes people don’t realize that posts can be jokes) ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/48 "2012-04-28T19:39:02Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > In general, we treat anything that has been broadcast, including previews to next week’s show, as open knowledge – with the proviso that East Coast folks should be sensitive to West Coast folks. West Coasters should be aware of the risks, just like folks in other countries. It’s only a couple of hours, and I assume that West Coasters are spending that time arranging platters of crudites and decanting the appropriate wine. I stay out of threads for non-US shows that haven’t aired here yet, and sometimes that takes years. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/49 "2012-04-29T06:21:08Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I stay out of threads for non-US shows that haven’t aired here yet, and sometimes that takes years. Are there many Non-US shows (besides Dr Who) that people in the US follow, though? I get the impression most of the stuff the BBC makes that’s popular in the US is only popular with people who have ways of seeing the shows before they air on TV in the US. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/50 "2012-04-29T14:30:42Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Are there many Non-US shows (besides Dr Who) that people in the US follow, though? > > I get the impression most of the stuff the BBC makes that’s popular in the US is only popular with people who have ways of seeing the shows before they air on TV in the US. Not true – there are a bunch of BBC shows that air here on PBS several months after they’ve been broadcast in the UK – _Downton Abbey, Cranfield_, et al. I myself am very much looking forward to the new (to us) _Sherlock Holmes_ episodes that will start running next Sunday here, and deliberately stayed out of the threads about the show that ran with regard to the UK airing. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/51 "2012-04-29T16:23:09Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > West Coasters should be aware of the risks, just like folks in other countries. It’s only a couple of hours, and I assume that West Coasters are spending that time arranging platters of crudites and decanting the appropriate wine. It’s more likely they’re sitting in the thread, refreshing every five minutes after the episode airs on the East coast because, while they don’t want to be entirely spoiled, they can’t resist reading early reactions of the episode. Then, when an East coast viewer has the temerity to be more specific in their reaction, it’s all “Thanks for spoiling it for me!!! :mad:” If it’s aired somewhere, I think it’s fair game, whether that means a four hour advantage for East coast viewers or a 12 month advantage for UK viewers. The onus should be on the viewer who doesn’t want to be spoiled, not on the viewers lucky enough to see it first. The former creates one action- don’t enter the thread. The latter creates all sorts of actions- do you talk about previews and risk raising the ire of some people? Do you mention an actor’s interview you just saw and risk “spoiling” viewers who don’t want to know a single solitary bit of info? Do you speculate and then be accused of having already read the book and purposely spoiling future plots? And where is the time line drawn? As others have said, do we stop mentioning the end of “Titanic” despite 1. The movie being over 10 years old and 2. Most people knowing the history of the ship sinking? If you don’t want to be spoiled, know that quest might be thwarted when you enter a thread. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/52 "2012-04-29T16:55:49Z")
I’m one of the people who avoids previews from next weeks show. The argument that it is “planned and approved by the director, producers, etc” falls flat for me. First, I don’t know that that’s true. I suspect it’s often some low paid intern or something who puts it together. Second, the purpose of previews is to get you to watch the show, not to maximize the enjoyment for the viewer. Those goals can be at odds, and I don’t trust whoever puts the preview together to avoid spoiling the show. I agree that what to put in a spoiler box can be a hard line to draw sometimes, but previews, to me, clearly belong on the “put it in a spoiler box” side of the line. West Coasters, I think, have to suck it up, and avoid a thread on a current show for three hours each week if they want to avoid spoilers. Movies are harder to define, and perhaps the thread starter needs specify in that case. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/53 "2012-04-29T19:58:43Z")
It’s all hard to define, and we ultimately rely on common courtesy: posters should be sensitive to the needs of others, and use spoiler tags if they think there’s a reasonable chance that someone might not have seen it. And readers who don’t want something spoiled should be sensitive and not read threads that they think might have exposed spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/54 "2012-04-29T20:10:06Z")
I am fine with all that, C.K., but I notice you left out an OP’s ability to set spoiler rules for a particular thread. Is that not kosher in your view? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/55 "2012-04-29T21:07:20Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > First off, it’s clearly not sufficient, since the issue arises time after time after time. Saying that it’s sufficient doesn’t make it so. It only arises time and time again because people open episode threads before they’ve watched the episodes. I don’t understand why people do this at all: I try to remain as spoiler-free as possible for shows I haven’t seen yet (that aren’t based on books I’ve read), which is why I’m currently avoiding trolling the internet for threads about the second season of the Borgias given I won’t see the episodes until they’re on Amazon Instant or DVD. What the hell is so hard about waiting to read an episode-oriented thread until you’ve seen the episode/waiting to revisit a season-long thread until you’ve seen the latest episode? If people didn’t wander into threads when they haven’t seen something yet, it’d eliminate 90%+ of the problems unrelated to people posting genuine spoilers about stuff that hasn’t aired yet (not cross-show contamination as someone mentioned, but I think we can agree that’s pretty rare), so why isn’t the onus on those trying to remain spoiler-free to use some common sense about which threads they open? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/56 "2012-04-29T22:13:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I am fine with all that, C.K., but I notice you left out an OP’s ability to set spoiler rules for a particular thread. Is that not kosher in your view? **Dex** (though both respected and beloved) is not currently actively moderating in Cafe Society. For the answer to this from a current CS moderator, again, see my post #27: > [@twickster](#): > > It’s hard enough policing all of this without having “loose,” “comfy,” “snug,” “tight,” and “supertight” versions of the rules in effect in different threads. > > … > > [W]e’ve set up the superstrict rules for _Game of Thrones_, and it’s been a complete pain in the ass, and sustainable only because **Gukumatz** , og bless him, has been willing to help out in those threads. We will continue to allow it for that show/those books, but it’s way more trouble for the mods than it’s worth… > > **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator You may \*request \*particular standards in a thread that you start, but as with any thread started in any forum, the OP doesn’t “own” the thread or have a privileged relationship in controlling the direction the thread goes or the participation of other people. Thus you should not expect the mods to enforce whatever special rules you want to set up. This is not a special rule about CS threads with spoilers; this is Board-wide policy. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/57 "2012-04-30T13:19:06Z")
I think the best solution is to make multiple threads for all shows, with various levels of spoiler allowed, sticky them all and then assign an expert moderator to monitor all spoiler activity. Then after a week or two, everyone will have learned the spoiler rules. Problem solved. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/58 "2012-04-30T15:04:59Z")
And maybe make **CarnalK** an honorary mod just to ride herd on the 96,301 TV show threads 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/59 "2012-04-30T15:41:53Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > And maybe make **CarnalK** an honorary mod just to ride herd on the 96,301 TV show threads 😃 Sounds good. BTW, Dumbledore is Luke’s father. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820/60 "2012-04-30T15:56:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sounds good. > > BTW, Dumbledore is Luke’s father. :eek: you monster! Just don’t tell anyone that Princess Leia is Harry Potter’s sister oh shoot :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-define-spoiler-please/619820.md?page=4)