# Can we end up with another "Jimmy Carter"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346 "2008-09-06T15:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/61 "2008-09-29T19:24:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So anyone who has gone thru a grueling campaign is qualified to understand the legislative process? Interesting point, but a bit incoherent. _:shrugs:_ For chrissakes, the guy is a U.S. Senator and has been in the U.S. House of Representatives. He’s a Harvard lawyer that was head of the Harvard Law Review. He taught at University of Chicago. He came from behind to defeat Hillary Clinton in a long, arduous campaign. The Clinton’s are among the most politically savvy people in the country. Then you try to state that the guy is not politically astute. Wow? Next, you’ll tell us that Lance Armstrong doesn’t know anything about racing bicycles. Incoherent? That’s a good one. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/62 "2008-09-29T19:52:07Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > For chrissakes, the guy is a U.S. Senator and has been in the U.S. House of Representatives. He was in the House? Really? What was he doing - cleaning? Might want to check your facts there, **Sparty**. > [@treis](#): > > ``` > Like I said, all a load of shit until you come up with something that even hints at the operation being a failure due to micromanagemnet. > > ``` “None so blind” and all that. I can’t be bothered to come up with cites if you won’t even read them. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/63 "2008-09-29T19:56:15Z")
I’ve read them all, and none of them come close to proving Sam Stone’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/64 "2008-09-29T20:02:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He was in the House? Really? What was he doing - cleaning? > > Might want to check your facts there, **Sparty**. I stand corrected, he was in the Illinois Senate. Nevertheless, my point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/65 "2008-09-29T20:03:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He was in the House? Really? What was he doing - cleaning? Nice. Would you say that about any other candidate? I’m curious. It seems an odd slam to a sitting US Senator. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/66 "2008-09-29T20:11:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “None so blind” and all that. I can’t be bothered to come up with cites if you won’t even read them. Pot…meet kettle. Did you read my cite? If so explain to me how Carter caused: [ul] [li]Avionics failure in one helicopter…returned to carrier[/li][li]Fractured rotor blade on another helicopter…abandoned[/li][li]Failed primary hydraulics system on a third helicopter…grounded[/li][li]Sandstorm[/li][li]Radio silence (understandable on a mission like this and not unusual) caused delays as helicopters flew in sandstorm and could not keep unit cohesion (flying low to stay under radar…also not unusual)[/li][li]Blow up an Iranian tanker truck smuggling fuel…lights up the desert[/li][li]Iranian bus drives by filled with Iranians…they are detained[/li][li]Too few helicopters to meet mission requirements and behind schedule due to the above issues the commander on site asks for and receives permission to abort the mission.[/li][li]Helicopter attempting to refuel lands on transport plane and they both blow up.[/li][/ul] Except for Carter agreeing to canceling the mission I am missing the parts in there where micromanagement on Carter’s part caused the mission to fail. Maybe it would have later because of him but we’ll never know since it never even got that far. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/67 "2008-09-29T20:57:18Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > I stand corrected, he was in the Illinois Senate. Nevertheless, my point still stands. So anybody ever elected to the Senate is qualified for the White House, based on that alone? Uh-_huh_. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/68 "2008-09-29T21:13:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So anybody ever elected to the Senate is qualified for the White House, based on that alone? Uh-_huh_. > > Regards, > Shodan Nobody is suggesting that Senate experience is Obama’s only qualification. Like McCain, Obama can point to lots of things to show his experience qualifying him for the white house. Senate experience is just one of those things. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/69 "2008-09-29T21:31:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So anybody ever elected to the Senate is qualified for the White House, based on that alone? Uh-_huh_. How obtuse can you be? You claimed he was unfamiliar with the political process, that he doesn’t know the legislative process: > [@](#): > > Obama doesn’t even have that much experience to draw on. I get the feeling that he will expect to be swept into office, send a whole bunch of legislation to Congress, and expect them to be passed immediately and all our problems go away. And obviously, you haven’t listened to what he has to say and you must have missed the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/70 "2008-09-29T22:17:38Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > How obtuse can you be? You claimed he was unfamiliar with the political process, that he doesn’t know the legislative process: Campaigning is different from governing. You claimed > [@](#): > > It’s also quite naive of you to think that a guy that has gone through as grueling of a campaign as he’s been through is naive about the political process. And the obvious counter-point is that, just because he has been thru a political campaign is not a reason to assert that he knows jack squat about being President. By that standard, George Bush was just as qualified to be President in 2000 as Obama is today. Sarah Palin is going thru a tough campaign. Therefore, she is qualified to be President. Anyone who complained about any lack of experience in any other candidate can be completely answered by saying, “He went thru a tough campaign. Therefore, he knows all about being President.” Everyone who runs for the White House has gone thru a tough campaign, and therefore it is not a useful way to distinguish one candidate from another. What it is, is a weak excuse for a candidate with virtually no relevant experience. You are attempting to conflate campaigning with the process of governing the country. Obama has no experience governing anything. He’s served part of one term in the Senate. He was never in the House, as mentioned. He did not teach at the University of Chicago; they gave him a fellowship so he could write a book. And when you are asked what the heck this has to do with governing the country, you respond, “Well,he made it thru the primaries.” Yes, I knew that. What does that have to do with governing the country? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/71 "2008-09-29T23:21:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Campaigning is different from governing. > > You claimedAnd the obvious counter-point is that, just because he has been thru a political campaign is not a reason to assert that he knows jack squat about being President. > > By that standard, George Bush was just as qualified to be President in 2000 as Obama is today. Sarah Palin is going thru a tough campaign. Therefore, she is qualified to be President. > > Anyone who complained about any lack of experience in any other candidate can be completely answered by saying, “He went thru a tough campaign. Therefore, he knows all about being President.” > > Everyone who runs for the White House has gone thru a tough campaign, and therefore it is not a useful way to distinguish one candidate from another. What it is, is a weak excuse for a candidate with virtually no relevant experience. > > You are attempting to conflate campaigning with the process of governing the country. Obama has no experience governing anything. > > He’s served part of one term in the Senate. He was never in the House, as mentioned. He did not teach at the University of Chicago; they gave him a fellowship so he could write a book. And when you are asked what the heck this has to do with governing the country, you respond, “Well,he made it thru the primaries.” > > Yes, I knew that. What does that have to do with governing the country? This is ridiculous. You claimed he was inexperienced in the political and legislative process. What is more political than a campaign for President, especially the one he’s been through. You say he didn’t teach at the University of Chicago. He was a Senior Lecturer. [http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html](http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html) Get YOUR facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/72 "2008-09-30T01:25:42Z")
From your own cite - > [@](#): > > . The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School’s Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. > [@](#): > > In an effort to recruit him to their faculty, the University of Chicago Law School provided Obama with a fellowship and an office to work on his book [Cite.](http://www.answers.com/topic/barack-obama) > [@](#): > > This is ridiculous. Yes, it is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/73 "2008-09-30T01:34:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > From your own cite - > [Cite.](http://www.answers.com/topic/barack-obama)Yes, it is. “Obtuse” is the nicest thing thing that can be said about your posts. It must be a whoosh. From the exact same cite: > [@](#): > > He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. He **TAUGHT** three courses per year [for eight years]. What is it about the word “taught” that you don’t understand? How is teaching three courses per year not “teaching” at UofC? He chose not to be on the tenure track because of his political aspirations. That was his choice. UofC invited him several times. As my Dad used to say, “Slow as molasses in January.” Now go whoosh somewhere else. Get a friggin’ clue or quit whooshing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/74 "2008-09-30T02:01:46Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > As my Dad used to say, “Slow as molasses in January.” > > Now go whoosh somewhere else. > > Get a friggin’ clue or quit whooshing. Settle down and don’t let your emotions control your posts. There are any number of responses you could make that do not involve personal insults to other posters. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/75 "2008-09-30T02:11:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Settle down and don’t let your emotions control your posts. There are any number of responses you could make that do not involve personal insults to other posters. > > [/Modding] Yea, I know. That’s why I suggested the “whooshing”. It’s frustrating because there isn’t much to be debated about the official statement from the University of Chicago. It’s pretty clear. Notice that when I made a factual error I immediately stood corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/76 "2008-09-30T14:02:54Z")
Actually, you are correct. He taught part time, although most of his time was spent on his book. My apologies for the mistake. Now, how this qualifies him to be President any more than campaigning does… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/77 "2008-09-30T16:23:32Z")
Campaigning against heavyweights is a baptism of fire. The debates were endless and difficult for all involved. It shows the ability to react well under pressure and to keep it together. To rise to the top through that is laudable. We learn a lot about our candidates through the process. Bush was a bad campaigner relying on dirty politics and swiftboating to undercut his adversaries. He took the low road and has not strayed from it since. His campaign showed who is and it is not pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/78 "2008-10-01T01:02:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Now, how this qualifies him to be President any more than campaigning does… Look, why is this so hard for you? People are refuting your assertion that Obama’s first encounter with “political reality” will be in the Oval Office: > [@Shodan](#): > > It’s just hard on the country when our Chief Executive’s first encounter with political reality comes in the Oval Office. Obama certainly got a taste of “political reality” in the Illinois State Senate, the U.S. Senate, and during a lengthy primary campaign which is quite distinct, and far more grueling than the campaigns any of the other candidates has gone through this political season. Biden and Palin didn’t go through a primary process, and McCain had no real competition once the primaries started. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/79 "2008-10-01T01:14:22Z")
But not from running against Alan Keyes.😃 Give **Shodan** his due. ---
**Author:** ![tygre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@tygre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygre)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346/80 "2008-10-01T02:21:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Campaigning is different from governing. > > He did not teach at the University of Chicago; they gave him a fellowship so he could write a book. And when you are asked what the heck this has to do with governing the country, you respond, “Well,he made it thru the primaries.” You’ve already been corrected on the teaching aspect (and I hope this one sticks) but when Sarah Palin can’t even name a court case other than Roe v. Wade, and Obama taught constitutional friggin LAW how is she even slightly qualified? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-end-up-with-another-jimmy-carter/462346.md?page=5)