# Can we get rid of "retard" next? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 20, 2022, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755 "2022-05-20T11:27:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/202 "2022-05-21T13:26:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Because it has been used to dehumanize people. To strip them of their rights, to imprison them in squalor, to even sterilize them, all for the crime of not being as smart as the rest of us. > > How is that _not_ dehumanizing? Because that “not being as smart as the rest of us” line of yours makes me wonder what happens when someone (a) agrees with you about the rest, but (b) explicitly says they’re talking about humans. _“Yes,”_ they say, _“I’m talking about humans who aren’t ‘as smart as the rest of us’, as you just put it.”_ Yes, they say: they believe the humans riding the short bus are — as you just explained — not “as smart as the rest of us.” Yes, they say: they agree with _your_ word-for-word description of _exactly_ how smart those humans are; and they take pains to emphasize the word “humans” while they’re doing it. What happens if, while they’re simply agreeing with you about them “not being as smart as the rest of us”, they likewise agree with you about them being human? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/203 "2022-05-21T13:34:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Yes, they say: they agree with _your_ word-for-word description of _exactly_ how smart those humans are; and they take pains to emphasize the word “humans” while they’re doing it. They would be lying. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/204 "2022-05-21T13:35:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Social opprobrium in your case means he is show the door. Your friends getting on his case the next day and telling him no more party invites if he continues. > > And the SDMB can do likewise. And that’s what we are advocating for. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But the SDMB is a public forum. No it’s not. Being accessible to the public does not make something owned by the public. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > More akin to the town square (with global reach) than your living room. It is not owned, operated, or maintained by public funds. It is not administered by a government body. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The SDMB is here to be a place for the exchange and discussion of ideas and not a party of your friends. Not everyone who shows up to a shindig are _friends_. When I have a party of only _friends_, I don’t need to worry about people using dehumanizing language, as I don’t count those as people I would invite to a gathering of friends. But, as you say, this is more than a get together of a handful of people, and not all of us are friends. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How many conservative posters have left the board because of restrictions? If someone is not able to express themselves without using hateful and dehumanizing language, then I don’t count it as a loss when they find their way out. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/205 "2022-05-21T13:36:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What happens if, while they’re simply agreeing with you about them “not being as smart as the rest of us”, they likewise agree with you about them being human? Then they wouldn’t be using dehumanizing language. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/206 "2022-05-21T13:43:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then they wouldn’t be using dehumanizing language. Well, yes; that’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/207 "2022-05-21T13:45:06Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > They would be lying. No, they wouldn’t. It’s absolutely possible to believe (or know, or have proof) someone “isn’t as smart as the rest of us”, believe that’s a bad thing, _and still acknowledge they are a human being_. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/208 "2022-05-21T13:50:22Z")
If they are claiming that the less smart people are humans but are still using dehumanizing language to describe them, then the dichotomy suggests that they’re simply lying. In any event: > [@](#): > > Dehumanize > to deprive (someone or something) of human qualities, personality, or dignity: such as > > - a: to subject (someone, such as a prisoner) to inhuman or degrading conditions or treatment > > - b: to address or portray (someone) in a way that obscures or demeans that person’s humanity or individuality [Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/209 "2022-05-21T13:58:52Z")
There are lots of things that are _bad_ things. If I fall down and break my leg, that’s a bad thing. If someone is born with poor mental capabilities, that can be a bad thing. But what is being said when using slurs is that they are bad _people_. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/210 "2022-05-21T13:59:45Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s absolutely possible to believe (or know, or have proof) someone “isn’t as smart as the rest of us”, believe that’s a bad thing, _and still acknowledge they are a human being_ It’s also _possible_ to drive home, on busy roads, when you’re absolutely piss drunk, _without_ killing anybody. Or to go to work in your crowded office, seriously ill with COVID, without telling anybody, without wearing a mask, and without isolating yourself, and _not_ infect, hospitalize, or kill any of your cow-orkers. But it creates an unnecessary risk _to others_ … for the sake of (nothing more than) your narcissism and sociopathy. You’re just gambling with other people’s money. [the collective ‘you,’ not you specifically] “The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.” It doesn’t just bend by itself. We push it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/211 "2022-05-21T14:03:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But what is being said when using slurs is that they are bad _people_ . I think that goes too far. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/212 "2022-05-21T14:09:43Z")
No, that’s pretty much what “slur” means. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/213 "2022-05-21T14:12:25Z")
The SDMB, regardless of the desires of a privileged few, isn’t analogous to a private party at a private house. Additionally, we have a forum specifically designed where users are encouraged to spew invectives at other users. So, you don’t like the word retard or a ban worthy word like harpy. I’m sure others don’t like reading about sexual perversions directed at other users such as bestiality, pedophilia or sodomy with plants. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/214 "2022-05-21T14:14:54Z")
I think I’ve said my piece, and I see that there is no changing your mind on this subject. But, it’s not _your_ mind I need to change, so I think that further exchange in answering your politely asked questions serves little if any purpose. If mods have further questions or concerns, I will be happy to address those, but other than that, I think that I am done with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/215 "2022-05-21T14:15:21Z")
FWIW the euphemism treadmill is already well underway on this word. Due to playing various computer and video games I have exposure to communities of people much, much younger than myself and sometimes (unfortunately) am exposed to their speech. It is very common for people in such communities in their late teens and 20s to use the word “autism” or “autistic” the way “retard” and “retarded” were used as a “commonly accepted pejorative” say, 25-30 years ago. This is likely to eventually make using the term autism “problematic” even for its intended use (which is also what happened with the word retarded.) ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/216 "2022-05-21T14:15:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Additionally, we have a forum specifically designed where users are encouraged to spew invectives at other users. A forum where there are limits on that invective. > [@](#): > > So, you don’t like the word retard or a ban worthy word like harpy. I’m sure others don’t like reading about sexual perversions directed at other users such as bestiality, pedophilia or sodomy with plants. But only one of those groups of words demeans and belittles an entire class of marginalized and often abused people who did nothing to deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/217 "2022-05-21T14:17:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > No, that’s pretty much what “slur” means. I think there is a lot of nuance here. Calling someone gay as a slur is meant to mean they are morally reprehensible. AKA a “bad” person. Calling someone mentally deficient means someone lacks some mental capacity. No “bad” person about that. Context is everything. It depends on what the speaker meant and how they thought it was a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/218 "2022-05-21T14:17:43Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Have you seen their other thread? Have read part of it so far. Haven’t seen anything about it that diminishes or changes my point. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s not a good thing, though, is it? Like, even taking away the “people disliking you for being the way you are” thing, it’s objectively not a desirable state of affairs It is, nevertheless, who many people are. And many of them are in some ways better people than some who have lots of intellectual ability. It’s possible, for instance, to have lots of brains by any of the standard measures, but to insist that it’s perfectly fine to go around insulting random strangers. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s absolutely possible to believe (or know, or have proof) someone “isn’t as smart as the rest of us”, believe that’s a bad thing, _and still acknowledge they are a human being_ . Not if one thinks that being not “as smart as the rest of us” makes them a bad person. And using insulting terms, or even using neutrally descriptive terms as insults, is saying one thinks the people themselves don’t matter, and/or thinks they’re essentially bad people. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/219 "2022-05-21T14:20:18Z")
The brain is a physical organ. Making fun of someone’s brain or insulting it is insulting what is basically an immutable organ. No amount of practice, training, or studying is going to turn any of us into a Von Neumann. So insults directed at intelligence aren’t very nice I’m not sure why we’d single out only this one word at this point in time. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/220 "2022-05-21T14:20:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So insults directed at intelligence aren’t very nice I’m not sure why we’d single out only this one word at this point in time. Like I told the other guy, read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755/221 "2022-05-21T14:21:53Z")
A reminder, if someone does use the word retard the posters are allowed to reply/comment in threads anywhere on the board that the word is offensive, punches down and demeans and belittles an entire class of marginalized and often abused people who did nothing to deserve it. Everyone has permission to address the post, just not to insult the poster except for in the pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-get-rid-of-retard-next/964755.md?page=12)