# Can we have a dictionary, please? {about sealioning} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793 "2022-05-20T20:33:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/21 "2022-05-21T13:06:44Z")
Although called a sea lion, they are not related to the African lion, _Panthera leo_! #themoreyouknow ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/22 "2022-05-21T18:15:04Z")
Well, anything that eats fish for a living is going to have some gross poops happening. I can always tell when the cat food lottery has been heavy on the fish based cans because I’m the one who scoops the litter box. SO nasty! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/23 "2022-05-21T21:14:29Z")
It is a new one on me too. First time I saw it used was yesterday. I am old too and behind the times it seems. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/24 "2022-05-21T22:13:00Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I have added the term to the SDMB glossary of terms. No cow-orker? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/25 "2022-05-21T22:37:31Z")
I don’t know what ‘sealioning’ is supposed to be, but in practice the main purpose of such an accusation appears to be to excuse personal attacks on someone you are debating with. Under this framework, attacking the argument rather than the arguer is recast as a bad and sinister move, and cruel personal attacks are justified as the deserved response. Quite impressive that they have managed to turn being polite into a bad thing, but that is a necessity when you can’t win on the merits. Imagine the sealion in the original comic as a disabled person, and you’ll understand. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/26 "2022-05-21T22:42:13Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > No cow-orker? Does that still come up? I did add **Trock** to the glossary today. I believe I saw that in the Pit at some point and have made heavy use of it since. I should look for the earliest SDMB usage. ETA: Looks like it was first used on the SDMB December 2017. I’m reasonably sure it is quite a bit older, it seems like a obvious message board term once you see it. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/27 "2022-05-21T22:43:56Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > No cow-orker? > > Does that still come up? I think I saw it in the (I hate to call it this) Retard thread just today. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/28 "2022-05-21T22:47:47Z")
I was sea-lioned on another website, before it had a buzzword, and I’m pretty sure I got at least one poster banned. It’s an offshoot of trolling. Think of something often done by teenage girls, pretending they like someone just so they can earn their trust and then betray it. Sea-lioning is a variation of that, yet another form of troublemaking under the radar. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/29 "2022-05-21T22:47:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I did add **Trock** to the glossary today. I believe I saw that in the Pit at some point and have made heavy use of it since. Linky? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/30 "2022-05-21T22:48:14Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t know what ‘sealioning’ is supposed to be, but in practice the main purpose of such an accusation appears to be to excuse personal attacks on someone you are debating with. Under this framework, attacking the argument rather than the arguer is recast as a bad and sinister move, and cruel personal attacks are justified as the deserved response. Quite impressive that they have managed to turn being polite into a bad thing, but that is a necessity when you can’t win on the merits. There’s politeness and there’s weaponized politeness, the latter being helpfully illustrated by MAD in December of '64 (PDF pages 10 & 11): > **[MAD091.pdf](https://www.professorklein.com/2020/mead/60s/MAD091.pdf)** > > 10.86 MB ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/31 "2022-05-21T22:51:57Z")
To the Glossary or to the first use? Earliest use I found on the SDMB: > [@Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/5274): > > “Trocks”. I like that. I shall have no more trock with these people. The only way to win the game is not to play. Isn’t it interesting how they found their way to this thread with only a vague reference and no link? **Glossary** was linked to by ECG earlier. > [@Beginner's Guide to Glossary of Terms on Straight Dope Message Boards](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beginners-guide-to-glossary-of-terms-on-straight-dope-message-boards/307442): > > There are a number of terms commonly used on the Straight Dope Message Boards, that are basically “in-jokes” or references. There are several threads listing such, I have tried to compile them all into one post here. If anyone has additions or corrections, please email me – I’m going to keep this locked, so it doesn’t become too long and rambling, but remains fairly focused and easy to use. I have taken these descriptions from various threads and posts by various members. This thread isn’t upda… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/32 "2022-05-21T22:57:38Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Glossary** was linked to by ECG earlier. Thanks. One suggestion, about threadshitting, that is something like saying “I don’t own a TV” in a thread about “Your fave TV show?” . ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/33 "2022-05-21T23:00:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t know what ‘sealioning’ is supposed to be Read this whole thread, it was defined pretty early on. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/34 "2022-05-21T23:05:33Z")
That is pretty minor if they stop there, but a post like: _Generic TV Thread_ “I can’t believe people watch TV in this day and age” “I don’t own a TV, only live theater is worthwhile” If they keep going or post additionally and just as worthlessly they’ll get a warning. _Need help with Word 365_ “Argh, all MS products blow, switch to Google Docs.” The old classic that has been gone for a while: _Sports related thread_ “Only Neanderthals care about sports.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/35 "2022-05-21T23:19:08Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > OP, I wouldn’t focus too much on the original comic strip after which the behavior is named - the point it’s trying to make is pretty opaque. > > Agreed. In the original comic, I always thought the sealion was actually being pretty reasonable at first - the two people are talking shit about him, and instead of justifying their position when called out on it, they refuse to address it as if that gives them the moral high ground. I disagree. I think the comic sums it up perfectly, which is why “sea-lioning” became such a successful internet trope. In the comic, the woman simply happens to mention that she doesn’t particularly like sea lions. Overhearing this, a sea lion insinuates itself into the conversation and into the very lives of the couple, “politely” but relentlessly harassing them day and night by pretending to be seeking evidence and justification for what was just a casual offhand comment about a preference. So sea-lioning is indeed very much a form of trolling, but it’s a sort of performance art disguised as civil discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/36 "2022-05-21T23:30:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > a sea lion insinuates itself into the conversation and into the very lives of the couple, “politely” but relentlessly harassing them day and night by pretending to be seeking evidence and justification The annoying persistence is there, but I see no obvious element of _pretense_ in the sea lion’s curiosity, and that’s the problem. The criticism is just what @Martini_Enfield said - the disparagement of sea lions comes out of the blue with no apparent rhyme or reason. The _reader_ is left wondering why on earth she dislikes sea lions. To a great extent one sympathizes with the sea lion - it’s quite _reasonable_ to be curious about why she feels that way. The comic completely lacks the element of _disingenuous_ questioning that defines sealioning. That would require that the sea lion knows full well why she dislikes sea lions, and that his persistent questions do not derive from genuine curiosity but solely from an agenda to annoy and antagonize. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/37 "2022-05-21T23:33:14Z")
My point is the couple are part of the problem by refusing to provide _any_ explanation. If the woman had said “A sealion bit my sister once”, then they’d have the moral high ground to say “We’ve given you an answer, sorry it’s not one you like, now clear off”. Instead they just roll their eyes (metaphorically) and think that gives them the moral high ground. Edit: What @Riemann said. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/38 "2022-05-21T23:47:39Z")
I get your point. I just feel that you’re overthinking it and demanding a precision that cannot practically be achieved in a few panels of a comic. For me, anyway, the basic meaning of the simple cartoon scenario is perfectly clear. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/39 "2022-05-21T23:50:50Z")
If we’re going to talk about the lack of precision we could start with the talking sea-lion. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793/40 "2022-05-21T23:53:32Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > we could start with the talking sea-lion This is SDMB. Talking sea lions may pass muster, but the use of a non-standard hyphen is beyond the pale. You have lost _all_ credibility in this discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-dictionary-please-about-sealioning/964793.md?page=3)