# Can we have a "freer discussion" option with looser modding on hijacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 28, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350 "2024-10-28T14:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/41 "2024-10-28T17:27:59Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Modding for hijacks is far and away the No. 1 reason for modding in P&E. It’s not just common–it’s constant. And anyone who gets modded for that probably doesn’t like it I’ve been modded – not as in warned, as in noted or included in general in a moderator comment – for hijacking. I thought the mods were probably right; I’d lost track of what the thread topic was. And I don’t spend huge amounts of time worrying about whether what I’m posting is a hijack or not; but I’ve only had that happen rarely, and when it did happen there was nothing horrible about it, I just quit answering in the hijack and that was all there was to it. You may be worrying too much. Or you may just hate staying on topic, I don’t know; in which case P&E may be the wrong forum for you. If we didn’t have moderating for topics in P&E, much of it would shortly become nothing but an argument over (currently) the Middle East among a handful of people; and the rest would be wild speculation with no way to find the breaking news buried in there someplace. > [@Aeschines](#): > > I think innocent hijacking is different, in that it’s pretty much the only thing modded that doesn’t involve ill intentions (and I think it’s clear that 90%+ of hijacking is not done to cause trouble). Which is presumably why it doesn’t get warnings and suspensions and bannings, but a modnote or even less. It confounds me how upset some people get over a modnote. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/42 "2024-10-28T18:08:19Z")
I don’t think breaking news should ever be in P&E just for that reason. I’m not convinced the M&P is where it should be, either. What you gonna do? Umm? Maybe don’t count on the Dope for your news. It seems like a contest who can post it first anyway. That’s why we get dupes so often. As far a hijacking. I’m one who has random thoughts on subjects that I never think are world shaking or meter changing. I’m certain the larger world cares not my thoughts on a given subject. So …I get hijack noted some. Clearly I think it’s mostly an educational note. It has turned harsh for no reason other than people like to beat down on persons. For their own gratification. It turns into ammunition for peoples baser feelings on a particular poster. And before you say this is me trying to make this about _me_, reread the OP. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/43 "2024-10-28T18:12:27Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > there’s got to be a middle ground between moderating even slightly off topic posts immediately, and letting it spiral out of hand. > > True; and it seems to me that the mods are usually in that middle ground. > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > we’d also allow the OP to try and get things back on course without calling it Jr Modding. > > I believe this is approved, even if it’s not the OP doing it, as long as it’s done as a nudge and not as giving orders. This is my feeling as well, just wanted to have @thorny_locust’s two points get a better +1 and amplify. The first extra problem with hijacks to me is that they often get down to 2-3 posters drowning out the rest of the thread with their little subtangent. If it’s 4-5 posts, sure, who cares, but it’s often far more than that, and I start tuning out what was to me an interesting thread. This requires no malice, mind you, but we have plenty of posters with axes to grind. The second point was my understanding as well, sometimes I’ll post to a side topic in threads with less stringent moderation than P&E and GD, and then say something like “Back to the OP’s points though” and follow up with a secondary thought, which serves to address the tangent and get back to the OP. A nudge, not an order. Frankly, if the mods are okay with it AND the poster invites a specific “looser structure” I don’t see anything _wrong_ with that, but suggest than in addition to the tag, there be a warning in the title as well to prevent extra, unneeded flags. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/44 "2024-10-28T19:12:07Z")
If an OP wants a looser structure they can just post in the Pit. People have posted discussion threads there before for just that reason. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/45 "2024-10-28T19:24:29Z")
Agreed, or IMHO or MPSIMS. I love that FQ, GD, and P&E stay focused. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/46 "2024-10-28T19:39:54Z")
I think the tag for hijacks - not necessarily welcome (as most threads aren’t MMP) but better tolerated - is an idea worth exploring. If someone wants more freedom in their thread to allow digressions, that’s fine. I would suggest something in the title itself, as tags are easy to overlook. What we don’t want is every thread wandering across every possible topic. But a limited trial could work. But, there’s no rule against having a serious discussion in a forum other than GD or P&E. Other forums have more relaxed rules about hijacks. If an OP wants a more meandering discussion of, say, Trump’s chances of winning, it can already be started in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/47 "2024-10-28T20:21:10Z")
In general I am sympthetic to @Aeschines points, but overall I do not favor the change they suggest. Ref this: > [@Aeschines](#): > > I understand, but are the people in that thread having a bad time? The people in the thread who are continuing the digression are evidently having a fine time. But note that for every poster posting there are a dozen or 50 who are just reading. We have exactly zero info about how those people feel about the digression. And then there are the active posters within the thread who are not participating in the digression. We also don’t know what they think of the digression until / unless one of them posts something, perhaps along the lines of “Hi folks! Returning to our regularly scheduled topic, I think …” > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This is genuinely silly. Nine posters in ten who say “I don’t know if this is a hijack” are **actually** saying “I really really want to make this point and I know it’s a hijack but I’m gonna go for it.” Like saying “no offense” before you say something offensive. Not quite. IMO what they are really saying (if not being disingenuous) is “My digression adds value to the overall conversation and is smaller than a true hijack which is about wrecking the thread, not adding seasoning (or levity or snark) to it.” I for one think a certain amount of asides are fine. I chose the term “digression” above very deliberately. Hijacking is a crime. A digression is not. A bit like how the music industry thinks every example of a consumer copying music is capital-P “Piracy”. Nonsense. But they have eventually persuaded a hell of a lot of citizens to do their bidding by misusing the term piracy for legit (or at least harmless) one-on-one copying. IMO SDMB (both culture and TPTB) has elevated (or debased) the term “Hijacking” to almost meaninglessness. IMO a comment about a closely related topic that is already intimately connected out in the real world with the titular thread topic is (usually) not a hijack. It’s a digression that probably enhances the thread overall. I for one would be far happier to have the mods crush tit-for-tat “No, _you_ misunderstood _me_” BS battles after the very first tit than I would have them modding comments on _tangential but well-connected_ topics. As one of the mods pointed out upthread , setting aside the genuinely malicious post intended to vandalize the thread, we can’t know whether an aside becomes a useful seasoning digression or is a distracting hijack until after it’s had time to gather steam or not. And by the time it’s 10 or 15 posts long, interspersed with some non-hijacky posts, some of which refer to content in the hijacking posts, then unraveling that into it’s own thread _post facto_ is difficult and the result is almost always unsatisfying. So it is perhaps better to emphasize prevention than cure. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/48 "2024-10-28T20:47:00Z")
Please leave things the way they are. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/49 "2024-10-28T21:57:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My usual practice is to let hijacks run for about 10 posts before stepping in. However, there are circumstances where I will act sooner, such as when the OP of a thread flags a hijack. And I appreciate that, as I think do many others. The complaints about “overly strict” hijack moderation are more about those times when a single tangential post immediately triggers a mod note, or sometimes a mod note is posted when there’s been no “hijack” at all, in what is apparently a well-meaning attempt to preempt one from occurring. I once got a mod note (and a thread ban, too, though the ban was later withdrawn) for **one single post** that I thought was reasonably on topic, or at worst, on a closely related tangent. These sorts of things do strike me as a bit overzealous. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO SDMB (both culture and TPTB) has elevated (or debased) the term “Hijacking” to almost meaninglessness. IMO a comment about a closely related topic that is already intimately connected out in the real world with the titular thread topic is (usually) not a hijack. It’s a digression that probably enhances the thread overall. I agree, and this is another very good point. What exactly is a hijack? I think a practical definition is either (a) one or two posts that are completely off topic and clearly add nothing to the conversation, or (b) a digression that has meandered on some tangent long enough that it risks taking the thread off its intended subject. I don’t think anyone would have a problem with those being moderated. The complaints are about people being afraid to post even a single aside for fear of being reprimanded. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/50 "2024-10-28T22:00:44Z")
If truly unsure, a note to the Mod(s) can take care of things usually. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/51 "2024-10-28T22:07:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If truly unsure, a note to the Mod(s) can take care of things usually.   If I wanted to start a thread or make a post that might be considered offensive or overly controversial, that would be appropriate. But if it’s necessary to get prior permission to make a single tangential remark, that’s just silliness, and in that sort of environment it’s much easier to just do nothing at all. This is exactly what some critics have meant by “stifling conversation”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/52 "2024-10-28T22:11:40Z")
The different forums have different standards > [@MrDibble](#): > > If an OP wants a looser structure they can just post in the Pit. People have posted discussion threads there before for just that reason. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Agreed, or IMHO or MPSIMS. I love that FQ, GD, and P&E stay focused. No one gets moderated for hijacks in the Pit, the most that happens is that a substantial digression gets pulled out into its own thread. And modest hijacks are generally allowed in IMHO, and usually allowed in MPSIMS, except in breaking news threads. (Again, we might pull a lengthy digression into its own thread, if it develops organically.) In general, we try to moderate IMHO and MPSIMS based on what the OP seems to want, which can be a pretty loose discussion. Personally, when i start a political-ish thread, i tend to do so in the pit in large part because i prefer the more open structure allowed there. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/53 "2024-10-28T22:14:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Personally, when i start a political-ish thread, i tend to do so in the pit in large part because i prefer the more open structure allowed there. I’ve often said I think the Pit is underutilized and I agree with this. I’ve engaged in many very productive discussions in the Pit and it’s wonderful to not have to watch everything I say there. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/54 "2024-10-28T22:14:58Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > And before you say this is me trying to make this about _me_, reread the OP. Actually you are making this about you. The OP is referring specifically to the tight moderation of hijacks in P&E and GD, which is a rule put in place a few years ago by Jonathan Chance. They aren’t referring to your tendency to hijack threads regardless of the forum or topic. In other words, this thread is about GD/P&E rules, not individual behaviors. The question at hand is whether or not those rules should be relaxed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/55 "2024-10-28T22:15:13Z")
Sometimes the person making the post is not the best judge of whether their post is controversial and/ or offensive, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/56 "2024-10-28T22:17:57Z")
Add me to the list of people who would prefer things stay as they are. Hijacks bug the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/57 "2024-10-28T22:20:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sometimes the person making the post is not the best judge of whether their post is controversial and/ or offensive, unfortunately. 😆, so true. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/58 "2024-10-28T22:20:25Z")
For the record, I don’t participate much in GD or P&E, but in general I’m opposed to a change in the moderation of hijacks since that rule was put into place for a good reason. If you allow a more relaxed and “freer discussion” as per the OP, then you’re right back where you started where the regular GD/P&E folks are going to complain that debates (the entire purpose of the forums) are difficult or impossible due to the subject always getting hijacked. If you want to have a freer discussion, take it to IMHO, and clearly indicate that you are looking for a freer and more open discussion and not a strict debate. Trying to have a non-debate thread in a debate forum seems kind of odd and more than a bit off-topic to me. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/59 "2024-10-28T22:27:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sometimes the person making the post is not the best judge of whether their post is controversial and/ or offensive, unfortunately. That’s not responsive to the original point, which was not about controversy or offensiveness, but about posters being afraid to make a single **innocent tangential** remark, to which you suggested contacting a mod first. That’s not a practical suggestion. It simply results in those posts not being made at all, and the conversation perhaps being the poorer for it. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350/60 "2024-10-28T22:27:16Z")
You currently have something like six Trump related threads going on just in P&E. (Latest rally, “runup”, “confused?”, “how he wins”, effectively the “stop panicking” one, and arguably a few others.) There are at least two basically identical threads just to guess at results. You are going to get some thread drift because these are all very much the same thing. Frankly, a half dozen similar threads can be more annoying than one omnibus where nothing can be a hijack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-have-a-freer-discussion-option-with-looser-modding-on-hijacks/1009350.md?page=4)