# Can we limit the removal of statues to the Confederacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744 "2017-08-15T21:24:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/81 "2017-08-18T23:50:03Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Now that we know how easy it is to topple a statue, I would expect to see more destroyed. And that will come to pass. And the alt-left nuts will target more and more people and places with ridiculous condemnations. Normal people won’t have the stomach to deal with the violence, doxing, and harassment and will capitulate each fight. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/82 "2017-08-18T23:51:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I hope we don’t stop removing monuments. Because let’s be realistic: we don’t have an unlimited amount of space for these things and people don’t intend to stop making history any time soon. Why should a monument to someone like Chief Taney stick around for hundreds of years, while Supreme Court justices who didn’t make embarrassing rulings go unhonored? At a certain point, it should be okay for us to look at a staue and say “you’re done” without sentimentality getting in the way. > > The make-up of this country is nothing like it was 200 years ago, and its make-up 200 years from now will be different from how it is today. Why should we expect our predecessors to care about our heros just as much as we do? Shouldn’t they get to honor the native son or daughter who develops the cure for cancer or takes the first step on Mars without worrying about the butthurt of someone still grieving over the Civil War? Monstro here is worried about running out of space? Take a look at Google Earth, that’s not a danger. By that logic let’s burn books that we don’t like taking up space at the local and private libraries. Space is finite after all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/83 "2017-08-19T00:03:19Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It’s amazing how one murderous lunatic has now created a Jacobin fire to destroy it all. Even the good guys of history now are going to be demolished. Fuck. This country is lost. History means no longer means anything. What the hell kind of power do you think statues have, that toppling them somehow makes history no longer mean anything? I’ve said, repeatedly, that I know who Benedict Arnold was even though my town had no statues in his honor. How do you explain that, exactly? Where did my knowledge of historical facts concerning the guy come from, if not from statues? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/84 "2017-08-19T00:20:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Monstro here is worried about running out of space? Take a look at Google Earth, that’s not a danger. By that logic let’s burn books that we don’t like taking up space at the local and private libraries. Space is finite after all. Do you think a library should allow dusty biology textbooks from the 1950s to sit on its shelves? Or do you think at a certain point it should be alright to replace those references with more current ones, so that students won’t learn outdated information? (By the way, libraries get rid of old books all the time because they are constantly getting new books. What world do you live in where this doesn’t happen?) And if your knee would stop jerking, you’d notice that I didn’t say anything about “burning” anything. Removing a monument is not the same thing as destroying it. Public space suitable for monuments is not infinite. It is kind of crazy that you, a conservative-learning person, is asserting that it is. Personally, I would be outraged if my city felt compelled to buy additional parcels of land just to put up new monuments. I’d rather my tax dollars go to something more productive, like funding historical museums and hiring good history teachers (funny how conservatives seem to care more about purty monuments than supporting these institutions). The sensible thing to do would be to have a system where a subset of monuments are phased out every so often to make room for new ones. If they have artistic or historic value, put the bad boys in a museum or sell them. There are a number of options besides “destroy them” and “let them stay up forever, no matter what anyone thinks”. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/85 "2017-08-19T00:42:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What the hell kind of power do you think statues have, that toppling them somehow makes history no longer mean anything? > > I’ve said, repeatedly, that I know who Benedict Arnold was even though my town had no statues in his honor. How do you explain that, exactly? Where did my knowledge of historical facts concerning the guy come from, if not from statues? Why tear a statue to the father of our fucking country down for? Because it’d make you feel good? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/86 "2017-08-19T00:44:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Do you think a library should allow dusty biology textbooks from the 1950s to sit on its shelves? Or do you think at a certain point it should be alright to replace those references with more current ones, so that students won’t learn outdated information? > > (By the way, libraries get rid of old books all the time because they are constantly getting new books. What world do you live in where this doesn’t happen?) > > And if your knee would stop jerking, you’d notice that I didn’t say anything about “burning” anything. Removing a monument is not the same thing as destroying it. > > Public space suitable for monuments is not infinite. It is kind of crazy that you, a conservative-learning person, is asserting that it is. Personally, I would be outraged if my city felt compelled to buy additional parcels of land just to put up new monuments. I’d rather my tax dollars go to something more productive, like funding historical museums and hiring good history teachers (funny how conservatives seem to care more about purty monuments than supporting these institutions). The sensible thing to do would be to have a system where a subset of monuments are phased out every so often to make room for new ones. If they have artistic or historic value, put the bad boys in a museum or sell them. There are a number of options besides “destroy them” and “let them stay up forever, no matter what anyone thinks”. I’m gonna guess you’re a-ofucking-kay with the monuments to Lenin staying up, eh? Fuck George Washington. Fuck Benjamin Franklin. But Lenin - that’s a good guy worthy of a fucking statue, right? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/87 "2017-08-19T00:45:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that will come to pass. And the alt-left nuts will target more and more people and places with ridiculous condemnations. Normal people won’t have the stomach to deal with the violence, doxing, and harassment and will capitulate each fight. These Jacobin pieces of subhuman shit hate this country as much as the scumbag Neo-Nazis do, for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/88 "2017-08-19T00:48:33Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Why tear a statue to the father of our fucking country down for? Because it’d make you feel good? Er, no; it wouldn’t make me feel good, and I don’t advocate for it. But I _do_ note that, were such a statue torn down, it wouldn’t leave us in a situation where history no longer means anything, because, well, seriously, that’s just a bizarre thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/89 "2017-08-19T00:56:21Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > I’m gonna guess you’re a-ofucking-kay with the monuments to Lenin staying up, eh? Fuck George Washington. Fuck Benjamin Franklin. But Lenin - that’s a good guy worthy of a fucking statue, right? Why have you made this crazy-ass assumption? You don’t know me if you think I’m in support of Lenin monuments. (It’s obvious you don’t know me regardless, but you really don’t know me if you think I’m a fangirl of Lenin.) You’re also being incredibly obnoxious. Save your o-fucking-kays for someone else. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/90 "2017-08-19T01:39:12Z")
If you agree to let the monuments to Roger Taney and Stonewall Jackson stand in the middle of the desert somewhere, with nice big plaques explaining what pieces of filth they were, I think that’s fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/91 "2017-08-19T04:05:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Monstro here is worried about running out of space? Take a look at Google Earth, that’s not a danger. By that logic let’s burn books that we don’t like taking up space at the local and private libraries. Space is finite after all. This is a bizarre stance. Libraries get rid of books all the time to make room for new ones. The one down the street does it once a year. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/92 "2017-08-19T04:48:11Z")
Well, we do, without doubt, need to get rid of all the Statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest, which are only in place to honor the KKK. However, they can leave up any of Jubilation T. Cornpone. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/93 "2017-08-19T05:23:34Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It’s amazing how one murderous lunatic has now created a Jacobin fire to destroy it all. Even the good guys of history now are going to be demolished. Fuck. This country is lost. History means no longer means anything. It wasn’t his fault he hit all those people - his car was skidding on that slippery slope! ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/94 "2017-08-19T08:18:54Z")
The short answer is no. Almost any statue is going to be deemed insensitive to someone. Our local flap for years has been Stephen Foster. > **[What to do with a Stephen Foster statue with a black man at his feet?](https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2017/08/18/Stephen-Foster-statue-Pittsburgh-racist-offensive-american-songwriter-african-american-charlottesville/stories/201708180140)** > > “It’s the single most offensive display of public art in Pittsburgh, hands down,” said activist and writer Paradise Gray. [![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6146/5959235593_02185cec6d_b.jpg) ](https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6146/5959235593_02185cec6d_b.jpg) And I can agree with a lot of them including this one. But the question becomes where do we stop? I have the bad feeling we aren’t going to. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/95 "2017-08-19T08:37:18Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > The short answer is no. Almost any statue is going to be deemed insensitive to someone. Our local flap for years has been Stephen Foster. > > [What to do with a Stephen Foster statue with a black man at his feet? | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette](http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2017/08/18/Stephen-Foster-statue-Pittsburgh-racist-offensive-american-songwriter-african-american-charlottesville/stories/201708180140) > > [https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6146/5959235593\_02185cec6d\_b.jpg](https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6146/5959235593_02185cec6d_b.jpg) > > And I can agree with a lot of them including this one. But the question becomes where do we stop? I have the bad feeling we aren’t going to. Can we limit the removal of statues to Confederates alone? I am going to say no-one has any idea if, or when, this will stop. Like all political/social movements we don’t really know where it is headed. Sometimes these sort of movements are stopped in their tracks, sometime we have successful pushback, sometimes the movement grows into an unstoppable beast. I would say the US is better than most at political pluralism and reasonable political accomodation, but im damned if I know where this is ultimately headed. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/96 "2017-08-19T17:48:37Z")
Anti-Fa and the Trumpists are America’s ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744/97 "2017-08-19T18:15:58Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is a bizarre stance. Libraries get rid of books all the time to make room for new ones. The one down the street does it once a year. The libraries in my local area do this frequently. Let’s not forget the relocation of cemeteries which happens frequently in the US to make room for all kinds of projects. Airport runways, football fields, roads, etc. The Germans even have a built in cemetery recycling system. Due to space limitations, many German cemeteries put time limits on burial locations. After 10 - 30 years they have to relinquish their grave to another deceased soul. I’ve visited German cemeteries and observed large orange stickers on grave sites that were slated for removal. So, yes, land space is finite and things get removed or relocated all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-limit-the-removal-of-statues-to-the-confederacy/793744.md?page=4)