# Can we not steal children? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506 "2012-05-30T02:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/81 "2012-05-31T02:04:43Z")
Fenris didn’t need to write out that long ass parody. The linked post was enough to have me dying laughing. I don’t know how I missed that the first time it was posted, but it was some stellar comedy. Can’t figure out if it was maybe a bit tongue in cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/82 "2012-05-31T04:22:37Z")
This could’ve been an interesting thread, but once again, people have to make a joke out of whatever \*\*even sven \*\*posts. Guh. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/83 "2012-05-31T05:11:53Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > This could’ve been an interesting thread, but once again, people have to make a joke out of whatever \*\*even sven \*\*posts. Guh. I see your point. I don’t think even sven deserves her threads hijacked. But did you read the link Fenris posted? Surely she had it coming with that one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/84 "2012-05-31T05:39:05Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Just so we’re clear, nun-beating and puppy-kicking are _also_ wrong. (This is MY brave moral stance) Oh, yes, I think we can all think of better things to do with puppies than **kick** them! ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/85 "2012-05-31T09:48:29Z")
I enjoyed Fenris’ parody. This thread is so sanctimonious that I want to kick something too— but no puppies! Msnbc’s Joe Scarborough could use a good beat-down, why not him? As for you,\*\* even sven, \*\*you mean well,and write well, but you come across as an unbelievably annoying, condescending, little know-it-all brat that most of your good points are wasted. It doesn’t have to be that way and it would make your posts easier to read. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/87 "2012-05-31T10:28:04Z")
> [@anya\_marie](#): > > I enjoyed Fenris’ parody. This thread is so sanctimonious that I want to kick something too— but no puppies! Msnbc’s Joe Scarborough could use a good beat-down, why not him? > > As for you,\*\* even sven, \*\*you mean well,and write well, but you come across as an unbelievably annoying, condescending, little know-it-all brat that most of your good points are wasted. It doesn’t have to be that way and it would make your posts easier to read. I read her posts with the J Peterman voice from _Sienfeld_. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/88 "2012-05-31T10:58:59Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I have no idea what a cute, if somewhat overwritten, little story about Muslims and Halloween in a thread about Muslims and Halloween has to do with anything. > > Seriously, are you guys capable of contributing _anything_ of value to this board? We may have different frames of reference as to what constitutes value, and what constitutes chardonnay socialism. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/89 "2012-05-31T11:05:21Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > We may have different frames of reference as to what constitutes value, and what constitutes chardonnay socialism. Oh for fuck’s sake. How about something other than ad hominems and worn-out jokes? And Chardonnay? Well, excuse me, Miss I-Can-Spend-$4-On-A-Bottle-Of-Wine. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/90 "2012-05-31T11:15:14Z")
Wow. Your cleverness really put me in my place. Anything else I can help you with? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/91 "2012-05-31T11:28:52Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I did enjoy my time abroad as a teacher. I was able to contribute pretty much no more and no less than any other dedicated teacher- which is to say quite a bit on a personal-connection level, probably not a ton on a “save the world” level. I made a few lifelong friendships and had a chance to be a part of some very two-way cultural exchange (it is a net good, for example, that we have some nice friendly Americans in China and Muslim areas, if just to counter some stereotypes from the military and business types that often consist of many people’s only experience with Americans), which I do think cultural exchange is a general good that makes the world a bit broader for everyone- be it the Peace Corps volunteer in Costa Rica or the foreign exchange student from Sweden. [The Dead Kennedys, Holiday In Cambodia.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7HNJVnn9Ms) Live it, love it, learn it. So you been to school For a year or two And you know you’ve seen it all In daddy’s car Thinkin’ you’ll go far Back east your type don’t crawl Play ethnicky jazz To parade your snazz On your five grand stereo Braggin’ that you know How the niggers feel cold And the slums got so much soul POL! POT! POL! POT! POL! POT! POL! POT! ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/92 "2012-05-31T11:35:51Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I see your point. I don’t think even sven deserves her threads hijacked. But did you read the link Fenris posted? Surely she had it coming with that one. I’m not clear on why he didn’t post his Fenris Opus in the original thread. Or Pit her at the time, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/93 "2012-05-31T11:40:57Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > I’m not clear on why he didn’t post his Fenris Opus in the original thread. Or Pit her at the time, or whatever. Board not working, dear? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/94 "2012-05-31T11:49:27Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Parents in impoverised countries sometimes leave their children at orphanages so they’ll be fed regularly. I think what she’s saying is that those children shouldn’t be available for adoption, they should be required to continue living in the orphanage just in case their parents suddenly win lots of money or lose another child and thus have the capacity to take care of them again. It’s like a pawn shop for children. That’s…I don’t know how to feel about that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/95 "2012-05-31T12:58:32Z")
Not having the time to keep a score on every poster here (I can barely remember my own birthday) I am going to take what **even sven** says at face value. I don’t see anything wrong with this pitting, and am baffled by the response. There seems to be a lot of straw men building here. Largely I agree, people need to do some basic homework when adopting, maybe starting by reading the news coming from the country in question and finding out the state of its regulatory institutions. And for the record, some third countries are way more difficult to adopt from than others. If you adopt from the Dominican Rep. (fat chance, there are more potential adoptive parents than children to adopt. The cultural norm is that children be taken by other relatives to keep them within the family) be prepared to spend a year living here, the law says the child should be available to the child welfare authority (the only one authorized to process adoptions) for at least a year of random, frequent visitations. If they are satisfied that the child and family will do well then it is approved. This makes adoption difficult, even to locals (although I personally know a Spanish couple who lived here for more than a year waiting for their adoption to clear), but it also makes it darn near impossible to obtain a child from nefarious sources.\* As a starter point I would suggest that people choose countries with no known record of this type of scandals. Which sucks for a lot of countries and children, but perhaps a slow down in demand will mean that only children who are really orphans will get adopted. > [@kayaker](#): > > Seriously? Is late teens/early twenties too old? Need answer fast. Have your eyes on a 3D TV too? 🙂 > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Sorry sven, I like you, but you’re never gonna live that one down. > > If you wanted to discuss or analyze the serious issues that sometimes arise from international adoptions there are better ways to do it than starting a pit thread that accuses powerful white people of stealing the children of the poor wretched Africans. You know that that is a disingenuous way of describing the problem. I guess we didn’t read the same thread. There are a lot of disingenuous posts here alright, none coming from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/96 "2012-05-31T13:39:09Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I read her posts with the J Peterman voice from _Sienfeld_. That’s about the right- sort of a breathy and overwrought travelogue, True story, that for some reason that escapes me know I though would be fun to recount in the voice of a desperately overwritten travel novel. People in the thread seemed to “get” it and have fun with it, but apparently the offenderati isn’t quite that sharp. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/97 "2012-05-31T14:16:41Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s about the right- sort of a breathy and overwrought travelogue, > > True story, that for some reason that escapes me know I though would be fun to recount in the voice of a desperately overwritten travel novel. People in the thread seemed to “get” it and have fun with it, but apparently the offenderati isn’t quite that sharp. Ah. So it _was_ sort of tongue in cheek. Ok. ETA: I admit, I didn’t read the whole thread. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/98 "2012-05-31T14:19:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s about the right- sort of a breathy and overwrought travelogue, > > True story, that for some reason that escapes me know I though would be fun to recount in the voice of a desperately overwritten travel novel. People in the thread seemed to “get” it and have fun with it, but apparently the offenderati isn’t quite that sharp. Well, list me among the ones who didn’t detect the ironic undertone. Always seemed pretty sincere to me. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/99 "2012-05-31T16:46:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s like a pawn shop for children. > > That’s…I don’t know how to feel about that yet. No, it’s like a place where a child can be fed and cared for, and where the parents can visit occasionally and, if their circumstances change, bring the child home. This isn’t a new concept. It’s how American orphanages worked into this century. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/100 "2012-05-31T17:13:05Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > [The Dead Kennedys, Holiday In Cambodia.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7HNJVnn9Ms) Live it, love it, learn it. > > So you been to school > For a year or two > And you know you’ve seen it all > In daddy’s car > Thinkin’ you’ll go far > Back east your type don’t crawl > Play ethnicky jazz > To parade your snazz > On your five grand stereo > Braggin’ that you know > How the niggers feel cold > And the slums got so much soul > POL! POT! POL! POT! POL! POT! POL! POT! This. I find poverty tourism masquerading as charity work extremely tacky. It’s not the end of the world, but I do find such behavior worthy of a few humorous jabs. The “we have much to learn from them,” crap is based on the fact that people often hand waive away seriously messed up aspects of other cultures. Now historically, most cultures have taken the view that if other people do things differently, they must be doing things wrong. And it’s good that Western culture has moved away from such a narrow minded view. But when you read a post about what a wonderful culture these Cameroonians have, and the same post casually drops that they buy women from their fathers like chattel, I don’t come away from reading that post with much respect for Cameroonian society. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/101 "2012-05-31T17:51:31Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > Board not working, dear? What the hell are you talking about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=6)