# Can we not steal children? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506 "2012-05-30T02:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/122 "2012-06-01T02:21:09Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I read an article recently about Melinda Gates extending the work of the Gates Foundation to include birth control of women in poor or underserved countries. There’s a bunch of articles avaliable via google, if you like. Ah, thank you for letting me know! I hope it does some good. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/123 "2012-06-01T06:29:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > As the 'Raffers once revealed on their thread for snarking about this board: snark is only fun on people who are oblivious. So… Beautiful…There are no words. Should have brought…a poet. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/124 "2012-06-01T11:50:28Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > So… Beautiful…There are no words. Should have brought…a poet. Or at least some weed. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/125 "2012-06-01T12:01:02Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You have opened my eyes. I now firmly oppose stealing babies. Even in America. There, I said it. Good. So you disagree with this: > [@Amasia](#): > > However, I’d rather have kids adopted out as babies than ending up working as prostitutes in 8-10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/126 "2012-06-01T14:57:38Z")
What I have taken away from this thread. Fact = Stealing babies is B-A-D! Fact = Not adopting needy babies is B-A-D! Fact = High adoption fees are B-A-D! Fact = Some corrupt foreign adoption agencies are corrupt! Conclusion: Since regular folk don’t have rich folk money to investigate the adoption agencies, foreign adoption should be banned. Benefits: Smaller pool of adoptable kids means more “needy” kids will get adopted. The demand for the much smaller pool of “healthy” kids will drive the price way up. Wellfare moms will become entrepreneurs (Wombs for Rent[sup]TM[/sup]), thus reducing the load on government social programs allowing them to do even more good for the needy. It is a win-win. Hallelujah!!!1!! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/127 "2012-06-01T15:33:15Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake. How about something other than ad hominems and worn-out jokes? And Chardonnay? Well, excuse me, Miss I-Can-Spend-$4-On-A-Bottle-Of-Wine. Why? Surely the topic of this thread is so screechingly obvious that Beaker could figure it out. We’re in the Pit, not GD. Your take on gunning down innocents probably needs its own RO thread as well. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Well, list me among the ones who didn’t detect the ironic undertone. Always seemed pretty sincere to me. Hard to detect what isn’t there. I’d say it was a straight up account of Life Among the (un-restless) Natives. > [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m not trying to be confrontational with you personally, but I’d like to propose a friendly shift in looking at things, for the sake of discussion. > > \ > > Africa is not “poverty,” and living in Africa (or whatever area you are interested in) is not solely about your relationship to poverty and power dynamics. Some people click with the South of France because they love the way of life in French villages, some people really click with South Sudan because they love the way of life in Sudanese villages. There are plenty of reasons to fall in love with Zambia or Mongolia or Nepal- pretty much as many rasons as people fall in love with England or Japan or Australia. > > If you do enjoy living and working in Africa, outside of South Africa and maybe Nairobi, there aren’t a ton of jobs for foreigners. Its not like moving to Germany where you might be able to transfer your career as a book publisher or a yoga instructor. For foreigners, working in aid is the name of the game- and it’s not like it’s a terrible thing to do, but for plenty of people it’s a not-unpleasant means to an end. It’s a lot like English instructors in Asia- I doubt many of them came in with a burning desire to teach TEFL, but it’s not a bad thing to do and it gets you where you want to be. > > Anyway, a few thoughts that crossed my mind And when does this post become an ironic commentary that we just don’t get? Moving to Asia or Africa is not like moving to Germany, really? Who knew? We have much to learn from you. I can’t be bothered to find out which font **Fenris** et al used–this’ll do. Your posting style begs to be teased-at least on this subject. Can you not see the pomposity inherent in your posts within this very thread? You think we’re all so clueless, bumbling around America–all of (apparently) European descent–that we are ignorant of foreign cultures. Some of us have traveled more than you have, lived elsewhere, done more things etc. And (gasp!) some of us aren’t white, middle-class Americans who can’t find Europe on a map or Idaho, even.To pay you in your own coin: America is a diverse nation, a veritable melting-pot of races, cultures, religions and values. We have much to teach ourselves. **Myrnalene** : no Nonnies needed. In fact, no nonnies present–unless you’re a sock of someone else, which gets pretty involved and makes my head hurt. I’m here, front and center. I don’t have a lot of time, but I do read here at the Dope and (sometimes) follow along. I post when I’m moved to do so. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/128 "2012-06-01T15:57:47Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Some of us have traveled more than you have, lived elsewhere, done more things etc. I have never even interacted with Sven before, but my distaste for her stemmed from a post she wrote once, in which she waxed lyrical about how hard it was for her to find men because she had experienced so much. Because their lives were now so mundane to her the weary traveller, they could not understand her worldview, or appreciate the depths of her soul. (paraphrased of course) The thing is, I am pretty sure we are the same age, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that I have seen far more shit in this world than she has. The peace corp sent her places did it? Well I’ve been all over this globe of ours, using my own two feet and whatever few pounds I could scrape together, and I have seen some ugly business as well as had many good times. And I would never stand in a bar like that idiot and think I was better than anybody else. Fuck that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/129 "2012-06-01T16:05:12Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > And I would never stand in a bar like that idiot and think I was better than anybody else. Fuck that shit. I would. Not because I’ve travelled all over the world, but because of my excellent taste in music and hats. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/130 "2012-06-01T16:19:53Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > And I would never stand in a bar like that idiot and think I was better than anybody else. Fuck that shit. You’ve obviously never been in a few of the bars I frequent.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/131 "2012-06-01T16:53:56Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I have never even interacted with Sven before, but my distaste for her stemmed from a post she wrote once, in which she waxed lyrical about how hard it was for her to find men because she had experienced so much. Because their lives were now so mundane to her the weary traveller, they could not understand her worldview, or appreciate the depths of her soul. (paraphrased of course) For me, I don’t think I ever interacted with her on the SDMB (and didn’t snark on her all that much elsewhere) before she went into “more enlightened than thou” [self-righteous lecture-mode](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15021215&postcount=110) over a post I made. So this isn’t some sort of longstanding grudge as has been implied. I did a brief Simpsons riff off of a funny post Vinyl Turnip made and Sven let loose with one of her usual condescending, overblown smarfests. > [@Sven](#): > > > [@Fenris](#): > > > > Coming soon to Lifetime WHEN LECHERS ATTACK > > Hahaha. It’s funny, you see, because lechers never attack. Rape and stalking never happen. So women have no reason to fear for their personal safety when people are acting unpredictably towards them. > > The thing about horrible people is that they’ve had their whole lives to be horrible, and they get good at it with practice. People who commit horrible acts for psychological gratification (as opposed to for money or whatever) generally don’t run out of the shadows and grab people. They test their victims. They see how far they can push things, getting a handle on what kind of victim you’ll be. Then, when they feel like it’s a good setup, they do what they are there to do. > > And there are all kinds of psychological tricks that work on pretty much anyone. For example, murderers and rapists will often solicit a small favor from a target. This creates some cognitive dissonance, so that the victim feels invested in this interaction and is more willing to go on to the next step. Often times the baddie will set a tone of mild disapproval, which subtly encourages the victim to win his favor by “performing well.” These are all real things that work in other situations- for example, pick up artists use the “neg” to pick up women, and soliciting small favors at work is actually a really good way to cement relationships with coworkers. > > Baddies are pretty good at getting you halfway down a bad road before you know you are there. They start with an innocuous line of conversation, and they try to get you deeper and deeper into it before they start turning on the weird. Then they see how you react to the weird, and use that to judge if you’d be a good target. But they are really good at all of this, and it’s not reasonable to expect to see it coming. “The thing about horrible people is that they’ve had their whole lives to be horrible” No. Really? :eek: All that spewage from ~15 lines, mostly dialogue lifted from the Simpsons. Self-righteous? Check. Humorless twit? Check. Shrill? Check. Lecturing/Scolding? Check. Condescending? Check. Typical post by Sven? Check. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/132 "2012-06-01T16:58:21Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I would. Not because I’ve travelled all over the world, but because of my excellent taste in music and hats. I’ve got an urban sombrero AND a NASCAR cap. Am I worldly enough to be worthy of breeding with ? Oh, and that “when lechers attack” parody was a damn classic Fenris 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/133 "2012-06-01T17:00:48Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I have never even interacted with Sven before, but my distaste for her stemmed from a post she wrote once, in which she waxed lyrical about how hard it was for her to find men because she had experienced so much. Because their lives were now so mundane to her the weary traveller, they could not understand her worldview, or appreciate the depths of her soul. (paraphrased of course) > > The thing is, I am pretty sure we are the same age, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that I have seen far more shit in this world than she has. The peace corp sent her places did it? Well I’ve been all over this globe of ours, using my own two feet and whatever few pounds I could scrape together, and I have seen some ugly business as well as had many good times. And I would never stand in a bar like that idiot and think I was better than anybody else. Fuck that shit. Ah, yes. I had forgotten about what I call her “Indigo Child/Woman” thread. Pity her–no man can compete with her looks, her intelligence, her worldliness, her love of life. We little folk who have only gone to 3 continents, who only speak 3 languages\*, who only fill in the blank, we don’t know what it is to LIVE. We have much to– Contrary to **Myrna’s** interesting take on things, I (for one) don’t dog Ms Sven, but I’ll call anyone on the carpet who hasn’t learned this lesson: there will always be greater or lesser persons than yourself. That professor in Indiana knew what he was talking about, even if he did feel the need to dress it all up in an even sven sort of way.\*\* \*I only speak 2. Ok, 1 and 1/2…maybe 1/4. \*I refer to Desiderata, of course. _Once when I was in Iceland, I happened upon it, carved out of the pumice that makes up that great island. Passing a tow-headed, ruddy-faced stranger, I asked if he knew of this great writing. In charming broken English he told me the tale of the Icelandic Creed…_ I can’t sustain it; my gorge rises. And I intend no snark to the wonderful people of Iceland who could not have been more welcoming and nice. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/134 "2012-06-01T17:33:03Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > “The thing about horrible people is that they’ve had their whole lives to be horrible” No. Really? :eek: I only started being horrible recently. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/135 "2012-06-01T17:34:56Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I only started being horrible recently. So, late Cretaceous would be my guess? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/136 "2012-06-01T17:37:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’ve got an urban sombrero AND a NASCAR cap. Am I worldly enough to be worthy of breeding with ? Are you hot? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/137 "2012-06-01T17:41:55Z")
Darwin says “apparently not quit enough”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/138 "2012-06-01T17:55:34Z")
Or there is what I actually said, which is that dating is awkward in the first few months after returning from a long time abroad because you have to find a way to talk about all the stuff that happened to you in the last few years (which are all in place X) without being obnoxious by talking about place X all the time. It’s not a matter of being “better”- I’m sure you’d have the same problem after returning from four years in prison. I also mentioned this is a self-limiting problem, as you’ll probably going to build up enough local experiences to have some common ground with your peers pretty quickly. Reintegration is a bitch, luckily distance builds perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/139 "2012-06-01T17:58:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I only started being horrible recently. I did not know that was possible. Sven said that you had to be horrible for your whole life. I have, indeed, much to learn from you. And, as the Mbuti of the Ituri Rainforest say “A day without learning is like a cassava that hasn’t been rinsed, nourishing perhaps, but not pleasant.” So just as I had something to learn from you, you too can learn much from them. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/140 "2012-06-01T18:01:44Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Conclusion: > Since regular folk don’t have rich folk money to investigate the adoption agencies, foreign adoption should be banned. > > Benefits: > Smaller pool of adoptable kids means more “needy” kids will get adopted. The demand for the much smaller pool of “healthy” kids will drive the price way up. Wellfare moms will become entrepreneurs (Wombs for Rent[sup]TM[/sup]), thus reducing the load on government social programs allowing them to do even more good for the needy. > > It is a win-win. > Hallelujah!!!1!! See, I can definitely see from your tone that there is snark here but I actually (as an adoptive parent) agree with this to a certain degree. In Ontario, Canada, money cannot transfer hands to the biological parents of the child from the adoptive parent. Regardless of whether the adoption is domestic or international. It is still expensive to adopt internationally because it is a lengthly legal process and involves paying for international travel and housing. And yet, I still feel we are doing way too much of this instead of looking closer to home first. The reality is that if my husband and I had not been up for a challenge, our children would have been placed with a couple with far less qualifications than we have (finances, personal resources and energy). Why? Because there are so few couples who are willing to adopt through the public system (i.e. children that have been removed from their parent’s care) that couples like us usually ask for (and get) children who are babies or toddlers and are not willing to adopt siblings. Guess what? That’s the same aged child (or younger) as what you get with international adoption. If we greatly reduced international adoption (still keeping it open for relative adoption across international lines) maybe some parents would be willing to consider the wonderful children put in unfortunate circumstances here at home. However, I am truly biased on this since my kids are the awesomest and I am truly blessed to be their mom. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/141 "2012-06-01T18:03:01Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > **Myrnalene** : no Nonnies needed. In fact, no nonnies present–unless you’re a sock of someone else, which gets pretty involved and makes my head hurt. I’m here, front and center. eleanorigby, when you hang out at a space that is dedicated to talking shit about the SDMB (which…you do), you are essentially a nonny with a name attached. The snackpit is dead, long live the (new) snackpit. I am not particularly attaching any value judgement to that, specially. The Dope and Dopers get up my nose a lot, and I do vent about it. Keep recycling the Great Internet Grudges of Yesteryear, keep your hateboners stiff, I don’t give a good goddamn. But every time you’ve\* got someone turning on the spit over there, you\* run over here and pile-on with shit that isn’t even about the OP. And this “who us?? whatever are you talking about???” bullshit game that you and Fenris are playing in this thread is dishonest. \*collective you [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=8)