# Can we not steal children? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506 "2012-05-30T02:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/162 "2012-06-02T00:52:31Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > Rigs girl, you sincerely overestimate my percentage of care if you think I’m gonna wade through a ten point dissertation. No worries. It will wait for you. And I will say this last bit: **Even sven** , if your previous posts were anything like the one you just posted about your mom and the Guatemalan school, I’d be a fan. It is straightforward, concise and informative. I am left puzzled by the other posts by you on this topic. Clearly you can write a decent summary of travels. So what gives all the other times? 😕 I would sincerely like to hear more about this village and school. No snark at all, no sarcasm. Baffled over here. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/163 "2012-06-02T01:25:20Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And I will say this last bit: **Even sven** , if your previous posts were anything like the one you just posted about your mom and the Guatemalan school, I’d be a fan. It is straightforward, concise and informative. I am left puzzled by the other posts by you on this topic. Clearly you can write a decent summary of travels. So what gives all the other times? 😕 I would sincerely like to hear more about this village and school. No snark at all, no sarcasm. > > Baffled over here. This +1. The breathy J Peterman travelogue is a joke because it’s cringe worthy. Why imitate something that is meant to not be taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/164 "2012-06-02T03:02:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Think of it more as a no-fee boarding school. You don’t just swoop in and out when you feel like it, but you can certainly arrange for weekend visits or switch things up if your situation changes. Often they are funded by a church, where they provide a tangible community benefit (hey, if you die, your kids won’t starve on the streets!) and plenty of fresh young souls to give a religious education to. The National Council for Children (a fancypants name for the Dominican child welfare agency) runs that type of orphanages here. Others are run by NGOs or international development agencies. In my impression most kids do lack at least one parent, but their remaining parent/relatives do not want to “give them away”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/165 "2012-06-02T10:13:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Leave the kid. Take the cannoli. Is it for the soon to be infamous cannoli in a paper towel roll experiment? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/166 "2012-06-02T10:17:21Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Is it for the soon to be infamous cannoli in a paper towel roll experiment? .. This is starting to remind me of Portnoy’s Complaint and liver. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/167 "2012-06-04T02:44:20Z")
I’ll just repeat that as for the topic of this thread, there was very little in the way of hard facts to support any of these claims. The claims that this is a widespread problem, that the parents of the third world kids aren’t actually actively involved in this, and/or that this is a significant hindrance to aid efforts. Those aren’t claims I’m terribly interested in just hearing someone randomly spout off about, if they are real, produce some facts to support them. I also think the general assertion that “it’s wrong to adopt a kid out of country if they have a nearby living parent” is too broad to the point of stupidity. What if they have a nearby parent that doesn’t want them at all? Or if that parent is the one who put them up for adoption? What if one of the parents didn’t think they could take care of the kid, so put it up for adoption, and the other parent is some itinerant alcoholic degenerate and no one knows where that parent is? Should we really insist we track that parent down in the third world hell hole equivalent of a flop house they’re wasting their life away in before giving their kid a chance at actually having a good life? (Meaning out of the third world.) I’m not even convinced it’s wrong to straight up steal kids from third world parents, even assuming this is happening a lot. It’s undeniably better for any person to live in the first world than the third world, period. People raised in the third world are far more likely to not receive proper medical care, to grow up ignorant and stupid, and to die to acts of violence. If anything, many first world countries have troubling population numbers that will lead to some degree of population collapse in the next 100 years, with disastrous effects for the first world. I don’t know if it wouldn’t be to the mutual benefit of the first world and third world children to pretty much just start grabbing up kids in large numbers to give first world countries with stagnant growth rates some much needed young people. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/168 "2012-06-04T02:47:42Z")
Oh, things just got interesting 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/169 "2012-06-04T02:53:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m not even convinced it’s wrong to straight up steal kids from third world parents, even assuming this is happening a lot. It’s undeniably better for any person to live in the first world than the third world, period. People raised in the third world are far more likely to not receive proper medical care, to grow up ignorant and stupid, and to die to acts of violence. > > If anything, many first world countries have troubling population numbers that will lead to some degree of population collapse in the next 100 years, with disastrous effects for the first world. I don’t know if it wouldn’t be to the mutual benefit of the first world and third world children to pretty much just start grabbing up kids in large numbers to give first world countries with stagnant growth rates some much needed young people. Some of my male foreign students have expressed fear of not getting married in a few years because of fewer females than males in their age cohort in their home countries. Applying your logic, they should probably consider chloroforming some poor women in America and smuggling them back home. Or maybe they should grab young girls it would be easier for them to learn a new language and culture. Do you have any daughters? (The last three lines were examples of iillustration through scarcasm, I do not advocate bridenapping because of population pressure). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/170 "2012-06-04T03:01:02Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Oh, things just got interesting 🙂 Oh, no, NOW it’s interesting… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/171 "2012-06-04T03:03:28Z")
Heh We have much to steal from them it appears. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/172 "2012-06-04T03:51:02Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some of my male foreign students have expressed fear of not getting married in a few years because of fewer females than males in their age cohort in their home countries. Applying your logic, they should probably consider chloroforming some poor women in America and smuggling them back home. Or maybe they should grab young girls it would be easier for them to learn a new language and culture. Do you have any daughters? (The last three lines were examples of iillustration through scarcasm, I do not advocate bridenapping because of population pressure). Slippery slope fallacy, irrelevant question. If you feel there is a moral problem with stealing children and giving them to good homes in the first world, propose what you think it is. I have no interest in postulating on other issues that you may come up with in an attempt to frame the debate to your liking. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/173 "2012-06-04T11:14:40Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’ll just repeat that as for the topic of this thread, there was very little in the way of hard facts to support any of these claims. The claims that this is a widespread problem, that the parents of the third world kids aren’t actually actively involved in this, and/or that this is a significant hindrance to aid efforts. You might try reading a link or two from page one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/174 "2012-06-04T11:26:56Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Applying your logic, they should probably consider chloroforming some poor women in America and smuggling them back home. Chloroforming? Seriously? That is so 1970. Today we have GBH and a plethora of designer drugs to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/175 "2012-06-04T12:02:11Z")
This thread is getting confusing. Could someone just tell me who I’m supposed to kidnap? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/176 "2012-06-04T14:18:26Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > This thread is getting confusing. Could someone just tell me who I’m supposed to kidnap? White children. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/177 "2012-06-04T14:25:53Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > You might try reading a link or two from page one. Hey fuckhead, if you noticed I actually commented on two of the three links from page one already (and the third was just meaningless anecdote like the first two.) Yeah, those links don’t show any actual numbers on the problem, and actually showed that many of the children involved in these “child thefts” were put in those orphanages by parents who wanted to make money off of their child. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/178 "2012-06-04T15:18:29Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > White children. That depends. Are you going to kidnap the kid and hold em for ransom or are you going to make them an “honorary employee” in your toothpaste factory? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/179 "2012-06-04T15:32:33Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > White children. They’re not as authentic as African children, though. African children have a certain graceful beauty and gentle demeanor about them, due in part to their upbringing by not just their parents, but by an entire village. Each member of a village bestows upon a child their collective wisdom and knowledge, infusing their children with values that are, sadly, lacking in Western children. A s a Sudanese proverb says, “We desire to bequest two things to our children. The first one is roots; the other one is wings.” White children are to African children what Applebee’s is to a family-owned ethnic restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/180 "2012-06-04T15:56:55Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > White children are to African children what Applebee’s is to a family-owned ethnic restaurant. Covered in bacon? ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506/181 "2012-06-04T16:32:51Z")
Why not just kidnap the childbearing age women along with the children, and set up a breeding farm. Would that not be the best way to kill two birds with one stone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-not-steal-children/623506.md?page=10)