# Can we please not call Joseph Rosenbaum a "hero"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657 "2021-11-20T04:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/61 "2021-11-25T00:03:53Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > {…} He did nothing to threaten them, noithing to suggest to them that he wanted to shoot them {…} Nothing except walk around with a rifle on a combat sling in the low ready position. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/62 "2021-11-25T00:07:42Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Nothing except walk around with a rifle on a combat sling in the low ready position. Yes, as I said, nothing. That’s not a threat, it’s a warning, and one those idiots should have heeded before they committed suicide by stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/63 "2021-11-25T00:08:47Z")
Cool! You walk around your neighborhood doing that and see what the police do. Also, yes, it’s a warning that you’re ready to start shooting at a moment’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/64 "2021-11-25T01:07:31Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If there was no proof it was Rittenhouse then the circumstances of those statements being “so dissimilar” to the crimes he is accused of are irrelevant. The article says the prosecution “identified” the speaker in the video as Rittenhouse. I am going to assume they would have been able to provide proof of this if the evidence had been allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/65 "2021-11-25T01:15:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What is relevant - and the only thing that is relevant - is whether or not he killed these particular people in self defence, which he did. This is not true. You cannot claim self-defense if you instigate an incident. If Rittenhouse was pointing a gun at people then those people were justified in trying to defend themselves by disarming Rittenhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/66 "2021-11-25T01:17:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s not a threat, it’s a warning So if somebody pointed a loaded gun at you, you would have no problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/67 "2021-11-25T01:22:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If Rittenhouse was pointing a gun at people then those people were justified in trying to defend themselves by disarming Rittenhouse. As he didn’t do that, that’s also irrelevant. They were not justified in trying to steal his legally carried gun, that he was doing nothing threatening with. Yes, had the circumstances been different the outcome would have been different. But that’s not relevant to the actual case. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/68 "2021-11-25T01:22:43Z")
He killed two people, and attempted to kill a third. I agree that all of the people who were shot did terrible things, but there was no way that KR or anyone else who was there could have known this. Even if they had, that’s not the way we do things in this country. George Floyd also had a lengthy criminal record, but he didn’t deserve his fate either, especially over a counterfeit $20 bill! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/69 "2021-11-25T01:23:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So if somebody pointed a loaded gun at you, you would have no problem with that? Of course I’d have a problem with that. What’s that got to do with anything I’ve said, though? We are talking obout someone simply carrying a gun, something that is not in any way a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/70 "2021-11-25T01:27:05Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Cool! You walk around your neighborhood doing that and see what the police do. > > Also, yes, it’s a warning that you’re ready to start shooting at a moment’s notice. Sadly I can’t do that, as I live somewhere where self defence is effectively illegal. Adn you are absolutely correct, it’s a warning that you may well be shot if you try to fuck with that person. Don’t fuck with people, don’t threaten them, don’t try to steal their property, don’t fucking chase them when - despite them being armed - they try to get away from the situation. Rittenhouse, as it happens, didn’t fire at “a moment’s notice”, he fired when he was surrounded by people who chased him down and tried to steal his gun. Something that will become ever more necessary if you “defund the police” idiots get your way. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/71 "2021-11-25T01:28:16Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Even if they had, that’s not the way we do things in this country. Then why does your country have self defence laws? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/72 "2021-11-25T01:30:28Z")
If you don’t see what’s wrong with the way he’s ‘’‘’‘open carrying’‘’‘’ here, [![](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ipQT6vYeuV0jayuLcsvyznLIZtk=/0x0:660x440/1220x813/filters:focal(355x212:459x316):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67323843/73d55410_b9ab_46c6_97d3_e7a6949fb0de_AP_APTOPIX_Police_Shooting_Wisconsin.0.jpg) ](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ipQT6vYeuV0jayuLcsvyznLIZtk=/0x0:660x440/1220x813/filters:focal(355x212:459x316):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67323843/73d55410_b9ab_46c6_97d3_e7a6949fb0de_AP_APTOPIX_Police_Shooting_Wisconsin.0.jpg) there’s something wrong with you. Meanwhile, Black guys get shot for carrying a wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/73 "2021-11-25T02:18:22Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I agree that all of the people who were shot did terrible things What terrible things has Gaige Grosskreutz done? He has been at a number of protests but it’s mot illegal to protest (yet) and, as far as I can tell, has no criminal record. He’s a former paramedic who brings medical supplies to protests and provides first aid to people who are injured. Admittedly, Grosskreutz also carried a gun. But he didn’t bring it out until after Rittenhouse had shot two people. If the NRA had any sense, Grosskreutz is the guy they should be showcasing as a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/74 "2021-11-25T09:01:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Admittedly, Grosskreutz also carried a gun. But he didn’t bring it out until after Rittenhouse had shot two people. If the NRA had any sense, Grosskreutz is the guy they should be showcasing as a hero. The problem is that while he could be considered the “good guy with a gun”, it just got him shot. That’s not going to further their message the way they want. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/75 "2021-11-25T09:25:17Z")
The guy let three mistrial causing violations by the Prosecution slide. Not sure you can call that “favored Rittenhouse’s defense”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/76 "2021-11-25T09:59:28Z")
People, people, please - What’s important here is that we all get to be _really angry_ about something. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/77 "2021-11-25T10:39:51Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Cool! You walk around your neighborhood doing that and see what the police do. If one’s neighbourhood is in an open carry state, I’d imagine the police probably wouldn’t do very much, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/78 "2021-11-25T10:41:32Z")
Depends on your skin color. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/79 "2021-11-25T10:46:25Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Meanwhile, Black guys get shot for carrying a wallet. If you google the phrase “Not Fucking Around Coalition”, you’ll see a great many pictures like the ones at this link (I’m afraid I’ve yet to master the art of embedding images in posts): [https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/protests-in-louisville-kentucky-usa-06-sep-2020-10768323cl](https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/protests-in-louisville-kentucky-usa-06-sep-2020-10768323cl) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657/80 "2021-11-25T11:29:11Z")
What’s your point - that so as long as they travel in a large coordinated, trained and uniformed group, they’re fine? [Meanwhile…](https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/) I do so love the “Mentioning NFAC somehow mitigates the long, long history of police shooting unarmed black people” argument that seems to be cropping up with some regularity lately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-call-joseph-rosenbaum-a-hero/954657.md?page=5)