# Can we please not do this again (Zimmerman media circus)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289 "2014-02-13T23:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/81 "2014-02-16T18:00:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Dunn wasn’t an ordinary person who was about to be attacked, beaten or shot. There was no gun in that car, no matter how many bullshit “they must have dumped it” theories you’d like to float. No no … in your world, where you get to say “THE LAW! THE LAW!” some sterling moral lawful gun owner can shoot first and not give a shit later and that’s perfectly hunky-dory, because, gosh, no lawful gun owner would ever be so reckless with his weapon. > > It’s like a broken fucking record with you. Yeah, I’m quite happy when sterling moral lawful gun owners get to shoot people that threaten them and get away with it. I’m also happy when nutjobs who shoot at a truck that’s driving away from them get locked up for decades. I can’t really be upset about what’s happened here. Thug got killed, nutjob got locked up, self defence laws are affirmed and Florida is slightly safer for everyone who lives there. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/82 "2014-02-16T18:01:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So what was Dunn’s excuse? He never testified a shotgun was pointed at him. He couldn’t even be sure it was a gun at all, he said it might have been a stick. It was one of the detectives questioning Dunn who said that Dunn later claimed “it might be a stick”. Dunn insisted that both the police and his fiancée lied about his claims. Incidentally Steophan is wrong when he claims the police didn’t search for a shotgun. They searched for one and couldn’t find it. Also his claim “the jury got it right” makes no sense since it was only some members of the jury, possibly just one, who refused to convict of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/83 "2014-02-16T18:02:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So what was Dunn’s excuse? He never testified a shotgun was pointed at him. He couldn’t even be sure it was a gun at all, he said it might have been a stick. So where did the claim that they had a shotgun come from? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/84 "2014-02-16T18:07:23Z")
“Thug got killed.” You’ve already tipped your hand. What, pray tell, leads you to believe Davis was a thug? Rap music? Being a loud teenager? I’ve got sour news for you: if you want all those “thugs” taken care of, you and your militia better start warming up your trigger fingers, because they are fucking every where! Of course, by your fucked up logic, you should be pissed off that there _wasn’t_ a shotgun in the car, for then the poor unfortunate teens could have killed Dunn first when \*they \*felt threatened. And of course you’d be here telling us all what fine upstanding citizens those black teenagers were for sticking up for their second amendment rights. Or … would they still have been “thugs” in your eyes? Don’t answer that; everybody already knows the answer. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/85 "2014-02-16T18:13:10Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > Monstro, you may get your wish. > > [Orlando Sentinel article on warning shot bill.](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2014-01-08/news/os-warning-shots-immunity-20140108_1_self-defense-law-senate-panel-fire-warning) The problem I have with that is that displaying a gun in a serious manner IS threatening. If a gun is pointed in my general vicinity, why wouldn’t I think “OH SHIT! I’M ABOUT TO DIE” and then proceed to display MY gun. Trusting that the other guy will give a warning shot in this situation is just ridiculous because “bad guys” never give a warning shot. And _me_ giving him a warning shot is crazy if I seriously think he’s an imminent threat. Police officers don’t fire off a warning shot before they pump bullets into a suspect carrying a gun. It’s not always clear that a shot is being fired as a “warning” anyway. In the panic of the moment, a warning shot sounds no different than a “I’m a kill you” shot. Michael Dunn mistook his own gun fire for retaliation, IIRC. I can just hear someone say, “Officer, I fired a warning shot at them boys, but they were stilll making for the invisible shot gun I just know they were carrying. So at that point, I’m thinking these sons of bitches don’t have no fear whatsoever. It’s either kill or be killed. And you can’t tell me you wouldn’t have done differently.” And the guy would be right. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/86 "2014-02-16T18:13:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, because wearing a threatening t-shirt is not a threat of _imminent_ harm. That’s what everyone claiming it’ll be like the Wild West is missing - one must feel a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm to be allowed to use deadly force in self defence. > > So shooting someone who’s pointing a shotgun at you would be allowed, shooting at a car driving away would not. Assuming the jury didn’t find it proven beyond reasonable doubt that there wasn’t a shotgun - and as the police didn’t bother to search for one that’s a reasonable assumption - the jury got it right. Same as in the Zimmerman case. > > I doubt you’ll agree with this, as you’ve shown in previous threads you don’t give a fuck about the law or the right of ordinary people not to be attacked and beaten or shot, instead assuming falsely all white people are just out to kill niggers, and at the same time calling _us_ the racists. Hold the “us”, boy. You don’t speak for anyone but your twisted, pathetic self. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/87 "2014-02-16T18:19:53Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Hold the “us”, boy. That “us” says it all, doesn’t it? I’m not studying the likes of **Steophan** today. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/88 "2014-02-16T18:21:37Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > “Thug got killed.” You’ve already tipped your hand. What, pray tell, leads you to believe Davis was a thug? Rap music? Being a loud teenager? I’ve got sour news for you: if you want all those “thugs” taken care of, you and your militia better start warming up your trigger fingers, because they are fucking every where! > > Of course, by your fucked up logic, you should be pissed off that there _wasn’t_ a shotgun in the car, for then the poor unfortunate teens could have killed Dunn first when \*they \*felt threatened. And of course you’d be here telling us all what fine upstanding citizens those black teenagers were for sticking up for their second amendment rights. > > Or … would they still have been “thugs” in your eyes? > > Don’t answer that; everybody already knows the answer. Yes, exactly that. I’d have the same opinion if it were a bunch of white skinheads blasting hardcore punk out and the guy asking them to turn it down was black. I doubt you’ll believe this, but not everything is about race. Most people just don’t care. Fuck it, if a group of nuns were blasting hymns out and didn’t turn it down in public when asked they’re arseholes. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/89 "2014-02-16T18:23:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > That “us” says it all, doesn’t it? > > I’m not studying the likes of **Steophan** today. Shame, there’s a lot you could learn. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/90 "2014-02-16T18:32:32Z")
In what world does a Black guy walk up to skinheads and ask them to turn down their music? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/91 "2014-02-16T18:36:37Z")
And in what world would it be okay to shoot nuns for not turning down their hymns? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/92 "2014-02-16T18:36:37Z")
For those who haven’t been following the story detail by detail: The teenagers were listening to loud music. Michael Dunn told them to turn it down. Which they did. Then Jordan, being a typical teenaged male, made his friend turn it back up. He beat his chest a few times because that’s what androgens do in some people. Michael Dunn decides then to pump eleventy-billion gun shots into the car. The bullets just happened to hit Jordan, but they could have easily killed the other teens in the car. You know, the kids whose only sin was being in a car where loud music had been playing. For this, they get called thugs. I invite those who are curious to actually watch the footage from the trial and and judge for yourself whether these guys meet the criteria for “thug”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/93 "2014-02-16T18:37:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So where did the claim that they had a shotgun come from? You were the one who said the shotgun was pointed at Dunn. Put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/94 "2014-02-16T18:45:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You were the one who said the shotgun was pointed at Dunn. Put up or shut up. Er, you were the first person to mention it in this thread… So, again, if the claim didn’t come from Dunn where did it come from? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/95 "2014-02-16T18:50:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Fuck it, if a group of nuns were blasting hymns out and didn’t turn it down in public when asked they’re arseholes. Thank you for clarifying. White people who behave like Jordan Davis are “arseholes” but because Jordan Davis was black, he’s a “thug”. Next time just say “another dead nigger”. We’ll have more respect for you for choosing not to hide behind a code word. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/96 "2014-02-16T18:52:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Er, you were the first person to mention it in this thread… So, again, if the claim didn’t come from Dunn where did it come from? You said it was OK to shoot someone who pointed a shotgun at you. If you are now claiming that statement was entirely unrelated to Dunn’s defense, I accept your retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/97 "2014-02-16T18:53:33Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > In what world does a Black guy walk up to skinheads and ask them to turn down their music? And in what world are a group of young black teenagers akin to a group of skinheads. Considering that Steophan has also vociferously defended the jury in the Emmitt Till case, I can’t say I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/98 "2014-02-16T18:55:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Thank you for clarifying. > > White people who behave like Jordan Davis are “arseholes” but because Jordan Davis was black, he’s a “thug”. > > Next time just say “another dead nigger”. > > We’ll have more respect for you for choosing not to hide behind a code word. I also called the skinheads thugs, although by implication rather than explicitly. It’s explicit here. The nuns didn’t threaten anyone, just made their lives more miserable. Stop confusing dislike of thuggery for racism. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/99 "2014-02-16T19:01:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The nuns didn’t threaten anyone, just made their lives more miserable. And we have no reason to believe that Jordan Davis did either. Now, since you explicitly have called Jordan Davis a thug please explain, with evidence, what he did to earn your labeling him a “thug” other than being an uppity negro who didn’t show proper respect to a white man? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289/100 "2014-02-16T19:08:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yeah, I’m quite happy when sterling moral lawful gun owners get to shoot people that threaten them and get away with it. > > I’m also happy when nutjobs who shoot at a truck that’s driving away from them get locked up for decades. > > I can’t really be upset about what’s happened here. Thug got killed, nutjob got locked up, self defence laws are affirmed and Florida is slightly safer for everyone who lives there. Who was the “thug” who “got killed”? Are you using that term to describe the victim? Why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-please-not-do-this-again-zimmerman-media-circus/681289.md?page=6)