# Can we really fight ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301 "2004-05-15T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/1 "2004-05-15T18:36:54Z")
Well, the Iraq war has been quite polarizing. I respect differing opinions and am always interested in understanding the relative merits of differing thought processes. Oftentimes, I run into people who strongly support the current admin’s policies in Iraq. Fine, each to his/her ideas. But, the rationale I sometimes hear disturbs me: “They declared _jihad_ on us. We have to be strong and eradicate them” which soon devolves into “We cannot wear kid-gloves, we need to bomb the mosques if that’s where they are hiding, hunt them all down to the last one” which can devolve into “Ah, Islam, the religion of peace (smirk)”. That is plain wrong on many levels. Saddam wasn’t a distinguished member of AQ. There was little nexus between Saddam (and his political party) and AQ. I use the word “was” because it is possible that AQ have entered Iraq after the US invasion. What worries me is to think that they are not even referring to Saddam’s regime. I am afraid to ask who “THEY” are. Is “THEY” the Arab world? Is it Muslims? I am convinced that there are a large number of people who think this way. I have talked to some in person, and in any debate on any platform in the media, this perspective comes out as a legitimate pro-invasion point when the media does its usual “pro” versus “anti” nonsense. It scares me. Why would there be ignorance on such a large scale? The hatred that this ignorance spawns, the jingoism it engenders… how can it be beneficial to anyone? Where are we going with this misguided bunker mentality? I am beginning to wonder if ignorance can ever be fought. This is exactly how it must have been going back 2000 years… in every country in every issue in every war. pro and anti fighting each other. It doesn’t matter which side is right or wrong. Each side is 110% convinced of its position which leads to ignorance and hatred on at least one side or both. Ignorance and hatred and mindlessness. I don’t think ignorance has ever lost or will ever lose. It doesn’t seem to have changed. The worst part is most people on both sides are just like you and me. Good people. But either one or both of them are blinded. Very saddening. Can we really fight and defeat ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Zcrysis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zcrysis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zcrysis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/2 "2004-05-15T18:51:35Z")
> [@](#): > > “Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honour, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this. You remember that. Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.” I believe that fighting ignorance, and the hope that it can someday be defeated, should also be in this list. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/3 "2004-05-15T18:51:36Z")
> [@litost](#): > > Can we really fight and defeat ignorance? 780,000 years ago, someone figured out how to get a campfire going. Today _most_ people know how to light a fire. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/4 "2004-05-15T19:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I am beginning to wonder if ignorance can ever be fought. Life is a journey, not a destination! [/cheesy feel-goodness] ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/5 "2004-05-15T19:57:20Z")
I certainly try to do my part, both here and elsewhere. (It’s a struggle) ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/6 "2004-05-15T20:01:38Z")
Lies are halfway round the world before the truth has got it’s boots on. (or something like that) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/7 "2004-05-15T20:19:18Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > 780,000 years ago, someone figured out how to get a campfire going. > Today _most_ people know how to light a fire. Actually, few people have any idea how to light a fire. Most have to use matches or lighters, and even then need considerable luck. Meanwhile, the same sort of ignorance rightly condemned by the OP was displayed by those “enlightened” people who celebrated recently the death of a fundamentalist Christian politician by cancer, for no reason other than he had worked within the same system they are working in to do the same thing they are doing — namely, making his voice heard in accordance with his worldview. They chanted “Gay is great!” rather than “God is great”. But it’s all the same sort of chest-thumping barbarism. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/8 "2004-05-15T20:21:23Z")
> [@litost](#): > > The worst part is most people on both sides are just like you and me. Good people. But either one or both of them are blinded. Very saddening. > > Can we really fight and defeat ignorance? It’s a moment of wisdom from our beloved Jacko… _I’m starting with the man in The mirror (ooh!)_ The fight starts when we stop thinking that it’s always “them” that are ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/9 "2004-05-15T20:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Lies are halfway round the world before the truth has got it’s boots on. But that’s only because the Truth will royally kick Lies’ ass when he finally catches up with ‘im. Wouldn’t _you_ run halfway around the world if you had some big, scary mo-fo chasin’ after you? Poor Lies. He’s so mistreated by Truth. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/10 "2004-05-15T20:27:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The fight starts when we stop thinking that it’s always “them” that are ignorant. Well, who the fuck else? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/11 "2004-05-15T20:59:38Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Actually, few people have any idea how to light a fire. Most have to use matches or lighters, and even then need considerable luck. Meanwhile, the same sort of ignorance rightly condemned by the OP was displayed by those “enlightened” people who celebrated recently the death of a fundamentalist Christian politician… I try to maintain a sense of optimism about the direction of the human race. Please don’t destroy that by pointing out the obvious fallacy of my example. If we can’t even get _fire_ right after three quarters of a million years, what are the chances of our _ever_ dealing compassionately with our enemies misfortunes? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/12 "2004-05-15T21:09:05Z")
If it makes you feel any better, Squink, knowledge and compassion don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. I mean, really… Dr. Wily was pretty smart, and all he did was create deathbots to destroy the world. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/13 "2004-05-15T22:35:07Z")
I think the banishment of ignorance most often comes from within after many voices and much observation have had time to soften defenses. It requires a skeptical but open mind. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/14 "2004-05-15T22:49:33Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > They chanted “Gay is great!” rather than “God is great”. But it’s all the same sort of chest-thumping barbarism. If they actively caused his death by sawing off his head chanting “gay is great”, then I’d be right with you on that point. But they didn’t actively work towards his death. All they did was notice that he died of natural causes and celebrated that death. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/15 "2004-05-16T01:38:34Z")
It’s unfortunate that some folks’ idea of “fighting ignorance” consists of insulting everyone who doesn’t think the same way they do. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/16 "2004-05-16T01:50:52Z")
Well, jeez, Ggurl, you’re obviously just stupid, to say something like that. (Kidding, kidding.) ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/17 "2004-05-16T03:03:50Z")
Sure, we have made advances in life… but has our thought process really changed? To see people in this era of “information glut” to hold ignorant and hateful opinions is saddening. How can anyone think that in Iraq, the current admin is fighting those who destroyed the WTC and 3000 lives? How can anyone talk mindlessly of “kicking THEIR asses”? How can anyone treat this subconsciously as a religious war? This is a dominant opinion in this country. **ggurl** , if you are talking about me, this is not about opinions. This is about facts. Not just the disconnect between AQ and Iraq, not just about ignorant views re:Islam and to treat it as a monolithic religion with a billion _jihadis_ (“the fruit shop owner short-changed me… fucking _jihad_ on him”) but also about realizing that a mindless bunker mentality is just what it is: mindless… it engenders demonizing and hatred and I hope those aren’t what you desire. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/18 "2004-05-16T03:16:17Z")
The problem is that ignorance is 99.99% of life. (heh, ok I made up the percent) Take myself for example. Since June of 2001, I have learned so much. I was out of shape, mentally and physically, working in a dead end job, not reading, playing video games, and basically falling apart, slowly but surely. This message board taught me more than I can ever express in words. It taught me to organize my thoughts, consider other peoples feelings (which I still have to work on, and will hopefully get better), look at things from other perspectives, if I believe in them or not, and to be skeptical, yet remain open minded. I could not list the many individual things I have actually learned, but the most important is that this site has made me learn to think, and think for myself. I don’t just listen to the news and believe it, hook line and sinker. I weigh what is said and look at it in depth. Because of this site, I am not homophobic, racist or angry at the Muslims. It is other people that have decided to try and fight ignorance that I have made a better life for myself. Enrolling in school, reading, learning and picking a path in life that will lead me to be a better person. I am still on that journey of course. Could a man reach such a destination in a mere 3 years? I think we can fight ignorance. It is fought every day that I log on. For the first step in fighting ignorance is admiting your own ignorance. It is a hard journey, and doubts will arise of course. Don’t feel bad for having them. They are part of growing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/19 "2004-05-16T04:15:57Z")
We can fight ignorance, but we can’t get **Lib** a sense of humor. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/20 "2004-05-16T06:58:12Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If they actively caused his death by sawing off his head chanting “gay is great”, then I’d be right with you on that point. But they didn’t actively work towards his death. All they did was notice that he died of natural causes and celebrated that death. Big difference. “Natural causes” describes a death that is not due to illness or injury. Cancer does not qualify. And not actively working towards his death is a rather skimpy ethical defense. The cheering Palestinians who shouted “God is great” on 11 September, 2001 didn’t actively work toward those deaths either. But it still stank. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301.md?page=2)