# Can we really fight ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301 "2004-05-15T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/41 "2004-05-16T20:09:08Z")
Thanks for clarifying. I was confused about the “don’t have to” part of the sentence. I don’t see why you repeatedly conflate not hating your opposition with folding your hands and not defending yourself. **hlanlee** … thanks for sharing your story. My frustration is that we don’t seem to have “evolved” en masse when it comes to being inquisitive and not being blinded by ignorance and hatred. The bigotry against dark skin is still being practiced in parts of the world, albeit in different forms. The bigotry against Muslims and Arabs and Jews is rampant as ever in different parts of the world. Throw in the bigotry against smaller groups like gays and immigrants. I think immigration is an excellent example. Historically, new groups have always been treated as second-class citizens. It doesn’t seem to have changed that much. Just watch Lou Dobbs. It’s a mainstream opinion. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/42 "2004-05-16T20:43:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see why you repeatedly conflate not hating your opposition with folding your hands and not defending yourself. That’s because there’s a double standard at work here. Bigots can do as they please, picket gay funerals, agitate to have laws drafted to take away ohr rights, and nobody will shit to stop them. But if gay people agitate in the same way, expose the bigots, then then our putative allies tell us to shut up, don’t rock the boat, crawl before we can walk, not to hate. They expect us to fight with our hands tied against an eenmy with no constraints at all. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/43 "2004-05-17T00:18:44Z")
Where are these putative allies who ask you not to fight freely? On this board? Do you encounter them in real life? I would really like to know why they say so. Because, I can’t understand why they would be on your side and ask you not to fight freely. As for asking you not to _hate_ the opposition, that I can understand. Though, as I said, it could be extremely difficult, especially if you are facing irrational hatred yourself. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/44 "2004-05-17T01:31:34Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > That’s because there’s a double standard at work here. > > Bigots can do as they please, picket gay funerals, agitate to have laws drafted to take away ohr rights, and nobody will shit to stop them. > > But if gay people agitate in the same way, expose the bigots, then then our putative allies tell us to shut up, don’t rock the boat, crawl before we can walk, not to hate. They expect us to fight with our hands tied against an eenmy with no constraints at all. Oh bullshit. How fucking old are you? Do you remember the Civil Rights Movement? Gays aren’t experiencing anything new. The tactics on both sides aren’t new. Quit fucking whining. Minorities suffer. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/45 "2004-05-17T03:16:24Z")
> [@county](#): > > Oh bullshit. How fucking old are you? Do you remember the Civil Rights Movement? Gays aren’t experiencing anything new. The tactics on both sides aren’t new. Quit fucking whining. Minorities suffer. You try it for a while, asshole ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/46 "2004-05-17T04:08:03Z")
> [@county](#): > > Oh bullshit. How fucking old are you? Do you remember the Civil Rights Movement? Gays aren’t experiencing anything new. The tactics on both sides aren’t new. Quit fucking whining. Minorities suffer. What an incredibly fatuous statement, particularly given your pious assertion previously regarding ignorance… > [@](#): > > \*\*I certainly try to do my part, both here and elsewhere. (It’s a struggle) \*\* May I suggest you struggle harder, **county**? Extrapolate this one…why should any minority _have_ to suffer? Let’s see, mob rule. Why not narrow down existence to a few comfy limits and anybody who doesn’t fit is fair game: religion, sexual orientation, skin color, political beliefs, ethnicity, language…gee, doesn’t that just sound like a workable goal for civilization! Call me Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm\* (I’ve been called much worse) but it seems like overall people have made slow, erratic advances when it comes to acceptable behavior. Not in grotty human impulses, but at least in actions. It’s cold comfort to draw comparisons to public executions and torture, Roman slaughter-as-entertainment, etc. I don’t know how much of it can be attributed to actual widespread enlightenment, i.e. actual gut-level, individual respect for “otherness”, so much as general acceptance of rules. Maybe that’s the best civilization can offer. Make the rules relatively human and just possibly actual comprehension of the wisdom behind the rules might follow. Y’know, sit on hatreds long enough so maybe people might actually listen to one another and think. Of course that requires that enough people _want_ rules to be fair in the first place. \* Actually the dyspeptic hermit option is increasingly attractive. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/47 "2004-05-17T09:51:14Z")
> [@county](#): > > Oh bullshit. How fucking old are you? Do you remember the Civil Rights Movement? Gays aren’t experiencing anything new. The tactics on both sides aren’t new. Quit fucking whining. Minorities suffer. When one has been warned against being a jerk, then one should take pains to NOT be a jerk. Lynn For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/48 "2004-05-17T18:40:04Z")
> [@Gobear](#): > > According to Litost and Liberal, Phelps’ belief that “God hates fags” is as valid ethically and morally (or maybe even more so ) as my belief that I have a right to live in peace and equality… [Try again](http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps_watch.asp), Kimosabe. I produced that Flash presentation. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/49 "2004-05-17T18:47:44Z")
Lib, whatever differences we have ever had aside, that is a beautiful piece of artwork, and you are a wonderful person. (just a bit…odd sometimes) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/50 "2004-05-17T18:53:24Z")
Most impressive, \*\*Lib]. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/51 "2004-05-17T18:59:52Z")
Thanks! 🙂 It was another Doper who wrote the text. I can’t remember who it was. Maybe he will identify himself. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/52 "2004-05-17T19:11:08Z")
**Liberal** , That is beautiful. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/53 "2004-05-18T15:28:58Z")
**Lib** , I have a tear in my eye. Thank you for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/54 "2004-05-18T16:18:59Z")
**Lib** , that was great. And kudos to the text writer. Now I’m going to go look up everything I can about this lunatic, since he’d never even appeared on my radar before. It would almost be comical if it wasn’t evident that there are a number of people who eat this guy’s shit up, thereby making life hell for others. ---
**Author:** ![PorkChop47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e68b1a/32.png) [@PorkChop47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorkChop47)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301/55 "2004-05-21T17:16:41Z")
> [@litost](#): > > Can we really fight and defeat ignorance? In short, NO! Ignorance will always rear its ugly head. If people aren’t opposing women’s right, they’re opposing gay rights etc. (again, ignorance is a dicey term in itself, I’m porbably not defining ignorance how everone else sees it). The gay debate could certainly be a debate and not one of ignorance as I view it. If there was no ignorance, we’d all be Daoist or conform to one faith or another. Most human conflict starts with religion. You mentioned Islam and Iraq, a few times. If religious and world leaders were taught tolerance we really would be a peaceful being, and open to accepting people of diffrent race, gender, disability, sexual prefernce. again, it tolerance the cure for ignorance…I’m not sure where i am going with this either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-really-fight-ignorance/245301.md?page=2)