# Can We Say That Bush Lied Now? Technically, I Mean **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233 "2004-10-14T17:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/1 "2004-10-14T17:54:27Z")
Ever since the build up to the invasion of Iraq I’ve learned more about the nuances and fine distinctions between and amongst the various types of non-true statements than I had previously learned throughout my entire life. (Some of which I’ve been glad to learn. For instance, I’m glad that I now know what a negative pregnant is.) Growing up in my world, much of what politicians do, including negative pregnant, would’ve gotten me a whupping for lying. So, I suppose I should be obligated to place some of the blame for my ignorance about the variety of untrue statements on my parents. But, to be fair, they were just kids- naive country folk at that- back then. They themselves prob’ly had no idea of the wide world of untruths available to modern man. I ask the Attack-Iraq-Bush-Backers who’re more schooled in the ways of untrue statements than my humble self to give me clarification on this issue: **Now that Bush has publicly denied having done something that he’s on video tape doing** (the unconcerned about Osama debacle), **can it finally be said that Bush has lied?** I mean, ‘lied’ in the appropriate technical sense, not in the relatively unnuanced, naive, hillbilly sense that I grew up with. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/2 "2004-10-14T17:57:22Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > (the unconcerned about Osama debacle) Can you provide a bit more detail than this. I’m living in a cave and didn’t get this news. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/3 "2004-10-14T18:00:56Z")
Technically, no. Here’s what Bush said during last night’s debate: > [@](#): > > "I just don’t think I ever said I’m not **worried** about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.’’ Here’s what Bush said in two years ago in March: > [@](#): > > "I truly am not that **concerned** about him. I know he is on the run.’’ See? [sub]Rove should be calling me any minute now with a job offer. Yep. Any minute now…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/4 "2004-10-14T18:04:26Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Can you provide a bit more detail than this. I’m living in a cave and didn’t get this news. [http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/notconcerned.html](http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/notconcerned.html) Basically, Kerry quoted Bush to Bush and Bush denied haviong said it and implied that Kerry was deliberately trying to create a false impression. KERRY: Yes. When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped. Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, "Where is Osama bin Laden? " He said, "I don’t know. I don’t really think about him very much. I’m not that concerned. " We need a president who stays deadly focused on the real war on terror. SCHIEFFER: Mr. President? BUSH: Gosh, I just don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/5 "2004-10-14T18:08:45Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Technically, no. > > Here’s what Bush said during last night’s debate:Here’s what Bush said in two years ago in March:See? > [sub]Rove should be calling me any minute now with a job offer. Yep. Any minute now…[/sub] Damn! I feel like such a rube. I try and I try to get all sophisticated and shit; but, my hillbilly roots keep coming out. Too bad I didn’t know about all of this stuff when I was a kid. I’m sure if I could’ve just explained to my parents about how I wasn’t actually telling a lie I couild’ve been spared a spanking and thereby acquired greater leeway in my daily activities. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/6 "2004-10-14T18:18:32Z")
Ok, I’d give that a good old “liar” designation. It’s one thing to bash a guy for not remembering one of 1000 quotes he may have made over the past 3 years, but this quote is about his state of mind regarding Public Enemy #1, which he should not forget. Just a poor attempt at spin over a bad situation, we shouldn’t have stopped until we had that guy in chains, or in a box. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/7 "2004-10-14T18:30:17Z")
I saw the Bush campaign communication director on TV after the debate. She was saying it was taken out of context. The level of semantical nitpicking with our last two presidents is overwhelming. It started a nice trend too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/8 "2004-10-14T18:38:24Z")
All you folks are misquoting the President. He actually said: “It’s kind of one of those … … … exaaaggeraaatiooons!” And then looked really, really happy ( 😃 ) or possibly smug ( 😉 )about his choice of words. I found it to be a very strange moment. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/9 "2004-10-14T18:42:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Can you provide a bit more detail than this. I’m living in a cave and didn’t get this news. It’s Osama! Get him! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/10 "2004-10-14T19:15:36Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > It’s Osama! Get him! It seems so obvious now. In retrospect I wonder how I could’ve missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/11 "2004-10-14T19:25:05Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > She was saying it was taken out of context. That is un-beeee-leeev-able. For accuracy’s sake, here’s the whole quote: > [@](#): > > Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part – deep in your heart, don’t you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won’t really eliminate the threat of – > > THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he’s alive at all. Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not; we haven’t heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is – really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission. > > Terror is bigger than one person. And he’s just – he’s a person who’s now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is – as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide – if, in fact, he’s hiding at all. > > So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did. > > And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There’s going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I’m just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We’re tough, we’re strong, they’re well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means. Uh, it appears to be quite in context. The reporter asked why the Prez doesn’t talk about UBL anymore, and the President said that his whole war on terrorism thing has made UBL not that big of a concern. But I really like that lawyerly caveat he added in there, about UBL hiding… “if, in fact, he’s hiding at all.” Good one, Mr. President! You really zinged that reporter! ---
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/12 "2004-10-14T20:39:25Z")
There’s another forum I lurk at, yet can’t bring myself to post in due to the overwhelming ignorance running rampant a dank little corner of the internet called [multiconsole.com](http://multiconsole.com). It’s essentially a bunch of videogame nerds (not that I’m any better) who tend to skew a tad facist/ retarded (which I’m a little bit better than). A poster was insistant that bush was blameless for this claim because he merely said he “didn’t think” he ever said that. It’s not his fault he doesn’t remember doing or saying things. Can’t fight that logic. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/13 "2004-10-14T21:01:05Z")
I don’t think he was lying. He’s being much more dishonest when he says that Kerry has raised taxes (98, 240, whatever the number of the day is), or that Kerry flip-flopped on the war, or is more liberal than Ted Kennedy. I think he honestly forgot, and he phrased what he said two years ago poorly. Two years ago he was trying to make the point that OBL had been made a lot less effective, so he meant “I don’t care so much if he’s been caught as I used to, since he’s been effectively made irrelevant.” On the other hand, he was being typically stupidly optimistic. It was nice to see him get a taste of his own medicine, though. He’d have called Kerry a liar if the situations were reversed. ---
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/14 "2004-10-14T21:17:58Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I don’t think he was lying. He’s being much more dishonest when he says that Kerry has raised taxes (98, 240, whatever the number of the day is), or that Kerry flip-flopped on the war, or is more liberal than Ted Kennedy. > > I think he honestly forgot, and he phrased what he said two years ago poorly. Two years ago he was trying to make the point that OBL had been made a lot less effective, so he meant “I don’t care so much if he’s been caught as I used to, since he’s been effectively made irrelevant.” > > On the other hand, he was being typically stupidly optimistic. > > It was nice to see him get a taste of his own medicine, though. He’d have called Kerry a liar if the situations were reversed. Essentially, I agree. It’s just sad that as plain spoken as he is, the president is constantly in need of someone to explain what “he really meant”. And for as much as the “global test” and “sensitivity” thing as been blown up and taken out of context against Kerry, I can’t help but hope the Dems run the “not concerned” thing into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/15 "2004-10-14T21:25:14Z")
I really hate this. I mean **really fucking _hate_ this**. On two different occasions here, a poster has accused me of having ‘an attitude’ about them, one claimed having had a ‘history’ w/me in fact. IN both cases, I stated “I don’t recall having any real problem w/you”. In one case, **Izzy** thoughtfully ( :rolleyes: ) provided a link to a thread from 18 months prior where the other guy and I were going toe to toe. Was I telling a lie? Not to me, I sure as hell hadn’t remembered it. (These days I emphasize the “I don’t recall part”). that’s what (IMHO) Bush did here. To him, he didn’t recall marginalizing the importance of Bin Laden. The source of the contrary quote was him talking about where he thought the emphasis should be (while, I’m sure, wanting to distract attention away from the lack of success in finding Bin Laden, sure). So, the context of the quote would be roughly ‘in the scheme of things, he’s not the primary focus’, not “I’m not worried about Bin Laden” Now, does he lie when he talks about the Kerry record? well he sure is intentionally misleading. Did he lie about the WoMD etc? I’d say he sure as hell was intentionally misdirecting (“here, look at this evidence here, not at that stuff over there”). A lie, to me, is a knowingly intentional false statement. I think it’s fair to say he \*\*should \*\* have known about the WoMD, but to say he’s a ‘liar’ when he says he’s never said he wasn’t ‘worried’ about Bin Laden is not quite accurate. the “lie” Cheney did “Until tonight we’ve never met” was, IMHO, a poorly researched piece at best. They certainly should have known better than to simply state the two men had never met. it seemed to me to be a rehearsed piece vs. something Cheney came up w/on the top of his head, and sure as hell should have been researched up the wazoo. I don’t doubt that Cheney didn’t recall specifically meeting Edwards before then, but to offer it up as a certainty, given the number of potential occasions for meetings in the past 4 years was stupid. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/16 "2004-10-14T21:27:58Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I think he honestly forgot, and he phrased what he said two years ago poorly. Two years ago he was trying to make the point that OBL had been made a lot less effective, so he meant “I don’t care so much if he’s been caught as I used to, since he’s been effectively made irrelevant.” In this case, why don’t these guys say something to this effect? Does trying to clarify something usually provide the opposition with more fodder? Seriously, I’m curious about this. Neither candidate seems to be exerting any effort to clarify statements that are being misconstrued. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/17 "2004-10-14T21:31:19Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I really hate this. I mean **really fucking _hate_ this**. > that’s what (IMHO) Bush did here. To him, he didn’t recall marginalizing the importance of Bin Laden. The source of the contrary quote was him talking about where he thought the emphasis should be (while, I’m sure, wanting to distract attention away from the lack of success in finding Bin Laden, sure). So, the context of the quote would be roughly ‘in the scheme of things, he’s not the primary focus’, not “I’m not worried about Bin Laden” I’m with you, but don’t you think they should have prepared a better response to it? That comment has been all over the place for as long as I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/18 "2004-10-14T21:48:00Z")
yes, he should have prepared better, that quote and the "war on terrorism isn’t going to be ‘won’ " quote were certain to have been used. Yes he manipulates Kerrys’ words much worse and expects a pass on it. yes, he phrased it poorly. no, he didn’t “lie” IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/19 "2004-10-14T23:01:17Z")
> [@wring](#): > > On two different occasions here, a poster has accused me of having ‘an attitude’ about them, one claimed having had a ‘history’ w/me in fact. IN both cases, I stated “I don’t recall having any real problem w/you”. In one case, **Izzy** thoughtfully ( :rolleyes: ) provided a link to a thread from 18 months prior where the other guy and I were going toe to toe. Was I telling a lie? Not to me, I sure as hell hadn’t remembered it. (These days I emphasize the “I don’t recall part”). If GWB had ben mouthing off on a MB about his peeves w/ an anonymous poster I’d give him the same slack that I give you. As it is he was the Leader of the Free World giving one of the relatively few press conferences discussing matters of life and death re one of the gravest issues facing the world today. It may be out of line for me to expect these two situations you see as similar to be held to different standards. Maybe that _is_ all the more one should expect of the Commander in Chief of the Mightiest Armed Forces in History of the World when discussing events that will leave thousands of men, women and children dead. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/20 "2004-10-14T23:07:28Z")
Don’t you need a brain to be able to lie? I always assumed that to be the reason behind these weird claims that Bush never ever lied about anything. I am so confused now. Salaam. A [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233.md?page=2)