# Can We Say That Bush Lied Now? Technically, I Mean **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233 "2004-10-14T17:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/21 "2004-10-14T23:10:34Z")
Simon, please… "As it is he was **the Leader of the Free World** Think about this child… I’m once again close to vomitting… ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/22 "2004-10-14T23:20:34Z")
I know this is a mere anecdote, but I discussed this with a friend this morning. His comment was “Bush certainly doesn’t have the intellectual equipment to be President but he has surrounded himself with his father’s people and they are plenty smart.” Some people just don’t care that our President can’t remember what he said on the record. The old say is that a liar better have a good memory and a man who tells the truth ought to have one foot in the stirrup. The Bush-Kerry joint appearances (I will not dignify them by calling them debates) seem to confirm both sayings. The President surely didn’t thing he could get away with his denial. The only honorable explanation is that he was flustered in the moment and flat didn’t remember it. I’m not sure that is a plus but it is better than thinking that the Chief Magistrate of the Nation is just a bad liar. There are a lot of things that have gone down the President’s memory hole. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/23 "2004-10-14T23:51:39Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Simon, please… > > "As it is he was **the Leader of the Free World** > Think about this child… I’m once again close to vomitting… Well, you know, an honorific is an honorific. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/24 "2004-10-14T23:58:50Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Don’t you need a brain to be able to lie? He does. We call it “Dick Cheney”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/25 "2004-10-15T00:58:13Z")
\*\*“the only thing we know for certain is that these are bad people and we look forward to working with the Blair government to deal with the issue”. “Let me just say, these were illegal combatants. They were picked up off the battlefield aiding and abetting the Taliban”. President Bush, July 18 2003 \*\* [http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page4227.asp](http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page4227.asp) > [@](#): > > “WHITE: And some detainees in Guantanamo were neither captured on the battlefield, nor even arrested > inside Afghanistan at all. For them the process of Guantanamo justice and the questions that it raises begin > even earlier. These men were taken from other countries into US custody with little respect for legal > processes. Moazzam Begg is a British detainee prospectively facing trial at Guantanamo by a military > commission for suspected terrorism. He was held for over a year at Bagram first. The only contact with his > family, letters organised by the Red Cross, some censored by the authorities.” > > … > > WHITE: And what happened in Islamabad wasn’t unique. We’ve established that the illegal removal of > suspects into American custody in Guantanamo has happened across three continents. We travelled to the > Gambia in West Africa. Two men from Britain on a visit here never returned. They were taken to Bagram > too, and from there to Guantanamo Bay. The two men taken from the Gambia were Jamil Al-Banna and > Bisher Al-Rawi, both UK long-term residents. > > Jamil Bisher, his brother and a friend had set off from Britain last year to establish a peanut processing > business in the Gambia. They were arrested at the airport in the capital of Banjul. > > … > WHITE: The same thing has happened in Europe. The United States has taken men to Guantanamo, > ignoring local legal processes. After the war in former Yugoslavia the US led the way in building a > democratic Bosnia Herzegovina as part of the Dayton Peace Accord a special new court, the Human Rights > Chamber was founded with national and international judges. And yet last year, the United States ignored > the court that it helped to create to the alarm of its senior judge. > > Judge MICHEL PICARD > President, Human Rights Chamber > Bosnia-Herzegovina > It’s clear that the world is not safe anymore because of the behaviour of the United States. When the United > States feel that they do not have to comply with laws in any country of the world, because of the fight > against terrorism, it shows that everything can happen everywhere. > > January 2002 > > WHITE: In Sarajevo in January last year the Americans ignored protesters and the court. Six men who’d > been accused of plotting to blow up the American and British embassies were to be released from jail for > lack of evidence. There had been a rumour they might instead be handed to the Americans and taken out of > the country. The Bosnian Human Rights Chamber issued an injunction forbidding this. It was ignored. > The men were driven straight into American custody and then flown to Guantanamo. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/insideguantanamo.txt](http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/insideguantanamo.txt) …either President Bush lied, or he is extremely uninformed… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243819&highlight=Banquet+Bear](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243819&highlight=Banquet+Bear) ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/26 "2004-10-15T01:00:18Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Technically, no. > > Here’s what Bush said during last night’s debate: > > > [@](#): > > > > "I just don’t think I ever said I’m not \*\*worried \*\* about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.’’ > > Here’s what Bush said in two years ago in March: > > > [@](#): > > > > "I truly am not that \*\*concerned \*\* about him. I know he is on the run.’’ Well, to jokingly nitpick your joking nitpick - Bush said [this](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-3.html) on 17 / 9 / 01: > [@](#): > > A fellow came the other day to the office and said, ‘Well, are you worried about Mr. bin Laden?’ I said, ‘ **No, I’m not too worried about him.** He’s the guy that needs to be worried.’ [Laughter] But I want to assure you, the objective is not bin Laden. Oh, we’ll get bin Laden. There’s only so many caves he can hide in, if he’s still hiding in caves. My attitude was, once we get him running, it’s just a matter of time before we bring him to justice." Yep, the context’s different etc. Just trying to out-Rove **UrbanChic** ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/27 "2004-10-15T01:19:26Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …either President Bush lied, or he is extremely uninformed… Is it funny or is it sad when the bright side is that maybe the Prez’s just severely mal-informed, thoughtless or stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/28 "2004-10-15T01:38:14Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Is it funny or is it sad when the bright side is that maybe the Prez’s just severely mal-informed, thoughtless or stupid? Funny for a few seconds, and then immediately sad. I was appalled at his reaction to the question about flu shots too: MODERATOR: Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen? BUSH: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. :smack: I immediately thought, “Well, congrats on slamming one of the few countries supporting your war, George.” And, you go on to say that you’re working with Canada on getting flu shots? That’s extremely interesting. :dubious: I actually don’t believe GWB has the ability to pre-screen his rhetoric prior to speaking - he’s missing that invisible screen between the brain and the mouth. And, he could have come off a lot better about the Bin Laden lie (um, I mean statement) if he hadn’t thrown in his trademark preface - the smirk/evil laugh. Get a handler already. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/29 "2004-10-15T03:38:09Z")
I find it difficult to believe that Bush did not remember saying this. I mean, he has been preparing for this debate, right? It strains credulity to think that Karl didn’t sit him down at some point and say, “Look, George, here are ten really stupid things you’ve said in the past four years. Kerry might throw some of them at you. Here’s how you respond.” It also strains credulity that this particular quote wouldn’t be on the list. That being the case, I find Bush’s response to be inexplicable. I can’t believe that he would have responded the way he did if he knew he had made those statements, but I can’t believe he didn’t know it. Anyway, it isn’t even in the same class as the real lies Bush has used in the debate–in particular, that Kerry is going to let other countries have a veto over our defending ourselves (when Kerry has said exactly the opposite, repeatedly) and that Kerry’s plan for health care would involve the government taking over the health care system (which it wouldn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/30 "2004-10-15T03:49:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > He does. We call it “Dick Cheney”. This just means that he still doesn’t have a brain, and his actions are controlled by his “Dick”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/31 "2004-10-15T04:47:56Z")
It isn’t important whether or not he is “informed”, he’s got people for that, its \*their \*job to be informed. His job is leadership, and a real leader doesn’t quail in the face of adversity, he has the dedication and committment needed to execute a bad decision through boondoggle and onward to catastrophe. Without flinching! Now _that’s_ leadership! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/32 "2004-10-15T05:25:14Z")
In line with what **Spavine Gelding** was saying, if Bush really put any _thinking_ into what he was saying – if he reasoned things out instead of responding on instincts and impulses – he would be able to rely on what he had said before and what he hadn’t. He just “says” things whether they make sense or not. > [@](#): > > **Blonde** : I actually don’t believe GWB has the ability to pre-screen his rhetoric prior to speaking - he’s missing that invisible screen between the brain and the mouth. Alan Alda wrote a line in the film _Four Seasons_ that describes this well. A man says to his wife that her thoughts just drop out of her brain and down onto her tongue like a gumball machine. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/33 "2004-10-15T05:51:37Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > I find it difficult to believe that Bush did not remember saying this. After four years of watching the guy in office, I would no longer be surprised if it was revealed that Bush has “left” and “right” written inside his shoes so he’d know which foot they go on. > [@DoctorJ](#): > > I mean, he has been preparing for this debate, right? [That’s debatable.](http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2004/10/morning_after.php) Bush has gotten accustomed to drifting through life, having everything taken care of by his family or friends. Why should he think debating Kerry was any different? The man’s probably clueless enough to believe his own sound bites… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/34 "2004-10-15T05:54:18Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > I know this is a mere anecdote, but I discussed this with a friend this morning. His comment was “Bush certainly doesn’t have the intellectual equipment to be President but he has surrounded himself with his father’s people and they are plenty smart.” “He surrounds himself with ability the way a donut hole surrounds itself with donut.” – _attributed to Dennis Miller, before he turned to the dark side._ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/35 "2004-10-15T12:05:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I would no longer be surprised if it was revealed that Bush has “left” and “right” written inside his shoes so he’d know which foot they go on. Bush has “TGIF” written inside of his shoes. At first, people thought it meant “Thank God It’s Friday”, and that the President really enjoyed looking forward to his weekends. However, it was discovered that for the President the inscriptions means “Toes Go In First”. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/36 "2004-10-15T15:05:51Z")
We now have another legendary PotUSA. Not only did our first Gee Dubya not tell a lie, our latest Gee Dubya has never told a lie (nor make a mistake). How lucky are we? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/37 "2004-10-15T15:39:50Z")
[quote=Aldebaran] Don’t you need a brain to be able to lie? [\quote] > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > He does. We call it “Dick Cheney”. It is so depressing to have the Scarecrow as POTUS and the Cowardly Lion as Vice POTUS. I think the only word in the previous sentences that belongs in there is vice. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233/38 "2004-10-15T15:43:14Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > We now have another legendary PotUSA. Not only did our first Gee Dubya not tell a lie, our latest Gee Dubya has never told a lie (nor make a mistake). > How lucky are we? Actually, were he to say he couldn’t successfully tell a lie, that might be the first completely truthful thing he has said since stealing office. His mother made the mistake. They had enough money to go to Europe for an abortion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-bush-lied-now-technically-i-mean/269233.md?page=1)