# Can we say that posters are using "alternate facts"? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217 "2017-01-26T12:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/41 "2017-02-02T19:20:01Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > This reminds me of Tim Minchin: “Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.” > > Likewise, do you know what they call alternative facts that are true? Facts. > > No need to characterize “Witness A states he saw a man with a red top” and “Witness B said she saw a man with a blue top” as “alternative facts.” They’re both facts. As is, “Witness A and B gave conflicting statements about the color of the man’s shirt.” > > . Are those facts or opinions? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/42 "2017-02-03T01:59:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Are those facts or opinions? “Witness A said…” seems like a fact to me, as long as Witness A really did, in fact, say it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/43 "2017-02-03T16:15:36Z")
Better add “Bowling Green massacre” to that list too. Those facts are another “Bowling Green massacre” and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/44 "2017-02-03T20:09:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > When Ms. Conway tried to deflect the accusations of lying away from Mr. Spicer with her claim the he was using “alternative facts,” Chuck Todd explicitly noted “Look, alternative facts are not facts. They’re falsehoods.". > At that point Ms. Conway made no effort to defend the silly phrase and provided no further information that would have indicated that Mr. Spicer was relying on other data. She simply avoided any further commentary, tacitly acknowledging that there was no other information and that Mr. Spicer’s words were, in fact, falsehoods. > > The phrase means falsehood from its inception and any use directed at the statements of another poster will be treated as an accusation of lying. > > We do not intend to base our rules on the Trump administration’s definition of “glory.” Alternative facts are not falsehoods. Todd’s comment was just as false as Conway’s. That she chose not to address his falsehood does not make it accurate and should not have any bearing on our language going forward. Thanks for trying to protect us from ourselves though…I trust that your motives are pure. Now…what does “glory” have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/45 "2017-02-03T20:37:19Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Alternative facts are not falsehoods. **Todd’s comment was just as false as Conway’s**. That she chose not to address his falsehood does not make it accurate and should not have any bearing on our language going forward. > > Thanks for trying to protect us from ourselves though…I trust that your motives are pure. > > Now…what does “glory” have to do with anything? Bullshit. She told an outright lie. Tried to cover it up as “alternative fact”. It was a lie. Explain what his falsehood was. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/46 "2017-02-03T22:25:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Bullshit. She told an outright lie. Tried to cover it up as “alternative fact”. It was a lie. > Explain what his falsehood was. That if you combine the words “alternative” and “facts” you get by definition (at least until that day) a falsehood. If you can’t see that then fine. I don’t care if what she said was in fact the biggest lie ever told in the history of the world. That isn’t the point. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/47 "2017-02-04T03:29:46Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Alternative facts are not falsehoods. Todd’s comment was just as false as Conway’s. That she chose not to address his falsehood does not make it accurate and should not have any bearing on our language going forward. > > Thanks for trying to protect us from ourselves though…I trust that your motives are pure. This is just silly. Spicer lied about the size of the inauguration crowds. (_No actual facts have been produced by anyone in the Trump camp to support Spicer._) Conway tried to play word games and was caught. (_She seems to be making that her new public practice with her recent lies about non-existent massacres and lies about Obama’s actual actions regarding Iraqi immigration._) And the phrase is now in the public domain as a euphemism for lying. > [@What\_the](#): > > Now…what does “glory” have to do with anything? :rolleyes: Are you serious that you are not familiar with Humpty Dumpty’s diatribe in Through the Looking Glass? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/48 "2017-02-04T04:54:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > :rolleyes: Are you serious that you are not familiar with Humpty Dumpty’s diatribe in Through the Looking Glass? …well I’m not familiar with it. And I wouldn’t expect to have a familiarity with it in a thread in “About This Message Board”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/49 "2017-02-04T22:43:25Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > “Alternative facts” to me, on its face, pretty clearly just means “a different set of facts.” Meaning, they’re still facts. I think that’s how Conway meant the phrase. > > Now, do I think what Spicer presented really was factual? Of course not. And nobody in their right mind does. I don’t know if he flat out lied or if he was just relaying bad information, but regardless, the prhase “alternative facts” technically should not mean “untrue.” I think that was the spin Kellyann was trying to give. She was called on it, though, that there weren’t any additional facts. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217/50 "2017-02-04T23:16:44Z")
There is, of course, a huge difference between being incorrect (mistaken) and outright lying. Given the origin of ‘alternative facts’, it would seem that the recipient of the jibe would correctly assume that it is an insult and would equate it with ‘liar’, so I can see why a mod would wag a finger for using it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-say-that-posters-are-using-alternate-facts/778217.md?page=2)