# Can we shoot back?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 10, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596 "2010-06-10T00:31:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/201 "2010-06-19T15:54:49Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> If you watch the video, and as I have already posted, you will see that the ones trying to enter the US were all trying to return to México, they were no longer attempting to enter the USA. The BP could easily have let the one he subdued continue on into México. Isn’t it his job to prohibit people from crossing the border illegally? If they were all returning to our side of the border what exactly was the point in apprehending the guy in the first place? He will have to processed etc and that takes resources away from the BP to watch the border.
Next time you get pulled over for speeding tell the cop, “Yeah, I was speeding, but I’m not speeding _now_. I’m not even moving. Why take the time to give me a ticket when you can be out pulling over other speeders?” and see how that works out for you.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/202 "2010-06-19T16:00:03Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> The first reports said the chicken shit cop was surrounded by rock throwers. This video shows he lies.
>
> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFETM86uAk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFETM86uAk)
>
> The man he had apprehended was trying to run back into Mexico. What was the point of even stopping him? Why detain someone and go through the hassle of processing him when he was returning to Mexico to start with?
>
> This whole situation could have easily been avoided. But what the fuck? It was just a Mexican. No big deal.
Is just scaring them back into Mexico the way to prevent illegals? I’m not from that area but maybe he wanted a name, a photo, any information the man might have on other illegals and the people helping them. Law enforcement after all.
Aside from that I agree the video shows he was not surrounded but if he retreats at a group throwing rocks won’t that just encourage that tactic to be used repeatedly? I assume they were just pissed or wanted him to release the man he had in custody. Is that what an officer is trained to do? Release your prisoner and retreat. Honestly, how would a Mexican officer respond to a group throwing rocks at him. Run Away? My point is that while rocks are not as lethal as bullets there can cause serious damage both to the officer and the man he had in custody. How much damage should an officer take before he can defend himself? I wish he had fired a few warning shots at whatever they were hiding behind.
Although we can’t know exactly what the boy was doing it looks in the video like the officer fired at the group throwing rocks. What do you honestly think the boy was doing there?
I’m very sorry a 15 year old was killed but if there are very few repercussions from even trying to cross the border and assaulting an officer how do we stem the tide at all? Certainly starting a shooting war is not the answer. You can’t realistically think US agents would be less likely to shoot if more were killed.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/203 "2010-06-19T16:07:00Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> Are you brain dead or just plain fucking stupid?
>
> The dead boy was not trying to cross the border. So far he hasn’t been accused of throwing rocks. There was no “group” attacking the cops. Watch the video then go fuck yourself.
It sure seems to me there was a group throwing rocks which constitutes an attack.
What do you think he was doing there?
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/204 "2010-06-19T16:08:39Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> And calling me a racist is laughable. Especially coming from you and the others that make this claim.
You wouldn’t happen to have any evidence that I’m a racist, would you? [Or is it you’re still peeved at being proven dishonest?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353706&highlight=CBEscapee)
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/205 "2010-06-19T16:14:21Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> You wouldn’t happen to have any evidence that I’m a racist, would you? [Or is it you’re still peeved at being proven dishonest?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353706&highlight=CBEscapee)
Oh yes, the word gringo as defined by English speakers. What a joke. But seeing that another poster on this thread used the same exact word (post 171) and no one seemed to mind justs proves what a hypocrite you are, asshole.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/206 "2010-06-19T16:14:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Can anyone shoot someone that throws a rock at them or only cops?
>
> I don’t think even cops can shoot a kid that is throwing rocks at them (unless they are Mexican apparently).
One kid throwing rocks is not the same as a group throwing rocks. The officer was in danger of being injured or having his prisiner injured. Still, I wish he had fired a couple of warning rounds to scare them off.
Watch the video again. I think someone says “they hit him” which I took as a rock finding it’s mark.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/207 "2010-06-19T16:21:57Z")
> [@Camus](#):
>
> It sounds [exactly](http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/mexicos-southern-border/cynthia-gorney-text/5) like the [situation](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/18/world/americas/18mexico.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5090&en=86986b58a62a7850&ex=1308283200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) on Mexico’s southern border with Guatemala:
So humans are rotten to each other regardless of race or color.
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/208 "2010-06-19T16:22:26Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#):
>
> It sure seems to me there was a group throwing rocks which constitutes an attack.
> What do you think he was doing there?
The video doesn’t show anyone throwing rocks so how you can say there was a “group”. And no I am not saying no one was throwing rocks.
As far as the dead boy, he happened to live about a block from the scene so why is it so strange for him to be in the area?
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/209 "2010-06-19T16:25:04Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#):
>
> [If](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teargas) [only](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper-spray_projectile) [there](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_gun) [was](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullet) [something](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon) [between](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malodorant) [nothing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cannon) [and](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade#Sting) [deadly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_foam) [force](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_weapon). Too bad that’d rob Americans of their proud manifest destiny tradition of murdering brown people to further their goals.
I’m going to make a wild guess that the officer had to use what he had on him at the time.
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/210 "2010-06-19T16:27:20Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#):
>
> One kid throwing rocks is not the same as a group throwing rocks. The officer was in danger of being injured or having his prisiner injured. Still, I wish he had fired a couple of warning rounds to scare them off.
>
> Watch the video again. I think someone says “they hit him” which I took as a rock finding it’s mark.
The voice in the video says “le dió, el estupido” after the third shot is heard meaning the BP agent shot the boy.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/211 "2010-06-19T16:34:01Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> Oh yes, the word gringo as defined by English speakers. What a joke. But seeing that another poster on this thread used the same exact word (post 171) and no one seemed to mind justs proves what a hypocrite you are, asshole.
He’s not using the word the way you do. In this case, that poster was using the word similar to the way two Black Americans in, say, New York City might use the “N-word” to address each other. You use it as an insult.
And you’re complaining about a word in the English language being used with the English definition of that word on a site where the language used is English? That’s a hoot! Yes, [that particular word is now considered an English word, and has been for quite some time.](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gringo) I seem to recall another poster or two explaining that to you.
So, now you’ve called me a racist, an asshole, and a hypocrite. Given your penchant for dishonesty, I’m not surprised you missed on all three. How’s baseball played in your area? Over here in Korea, three strikes is still an out.
By the way, from the link above, maybe you’d like to read a bit of information?
> [@](#):
>
> Word History : In Latin America the word gringo is an offensive term for a foreigner, particularly an American or English person.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/212 "2010-06-19T16:34:59Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#):
>
> No you fucking neanderthal, some punk kid isn’t an armed incursion. If someone trespasses on your property are you justified in killing them if a less lethal alternative exits?
If a trespasser was showing little regard for my safety and willing to do me possibly severe bodily harm by throwing rocks at me and my only means of self defense was a gun, I might shoot. Hopefully to scare or wound rather than kill.
If a group of people were throwing rocks at me I’d be much more worried about my health because there’s a much higher chance of my being injured right?
It’s a tragedy, but I don’t see any reason for the officer to wait until he or his prisoner are really hurt before responding.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/213 "2010-06-19T16:53:31Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#):
>
> There are Americans who wouldn’t disposing of a cop, should the default police response to rowdy kids be a hail of gunfire?
That’s eaxctly how people get hurt when a peaceful protest turns into violence. When people go from yelling to throwing shit someone gets hurt. In general the police try to use less lethal forms but this officer had to use what he had with him.
> [@](#):
>
> Yea and calling for backup everytime a cop is out numbered would be bad form too. Better make police policy to just start firing when out numbered, instead.
Whether you like it or not he and his prisoner were in physical danger. Back up was not a real answer.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/214 "2010-06-19T16:56:31Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#):
>
> Teenagers do reckless things all the time. Their brains haven’t yet developed into adults. It’s why they have separate sentencing for them. Unless they’re Mexican it seems, then it’s a capital crime.
It’s tragic that a 15 year old was killed but I seriously doubt the officer knew the age of any of the group attacking him.
Would it have been less tragic if a 21 year old was killed?
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/215 "2010-06-19T17:08:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Did you even look at the video? The guys wasn’t surrounded, he wasn’t in fear of his life. He had his gun out as a bunch of guys were PAST him to get to the other side of the border. He grabbed one of them (and got him on his knees) and the other one might have started throwing rocks (the video is too fuzzy to tell if there are any rocks) when the CBP officer fired three shots and then one more shot. Result, dead kid.
>
> There was no “group of people throwing rocks” You make it sound like you think a gang of kids were throwing rocks at him, everyone was trying their best to get the heck away from him.
are you interested in the truth at all? Look again, read the article. There was a group throwing rocks and the agent warned them to stop and back off.
I repeat, I wish he had fired a few warning shots to scare them but I think he had a right to defend himself agaisnt a threat to him and his prisoner.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/216 "2010-06-19T17:31:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Listen up gilligan, the bottom line is the CBP agent had no idea who the kid was when he shot him dead, he just knew he was a kid. A kid. I haven’t seen proof that he threw rocks at him but I think our society had decided long ago that shooting bullets was not an appropriate response to throwing rocks. The response was more than disproportionate.
How did the BP agent know he was a kid. He may not have been throwing rocks but he was with a roup that was right?
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/217 "2010-06-19T17:37:22Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> The voice in the video says “le dió, el estupido” after the third shot is heard meaning the BP agent shot the boy.
I watched it again and you are correct. It says “They are throwing rocks” indicating a group and \*\*after \*\*the shot they say “they hit him” so I put the two together. “They” proabaly means to the border patrol rather than the individeal officer.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/218 "2010-06-19T17:42:52Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> The video doesn’t show anyone throwing rocks so how you can say there was a “group”. And no I am not saying no one was throwing rocks.
>
> As far as the dead boy, he happened to live about a block from the scene so why is it so strange for him to be in the area?
From the reports coupled with the folks on the Mexican side saying “they are throwing rocks” isn’t that whats being said?
How do you know he lived a block away? I can buy a kid hanging there if he lives fairly close. I can’t understand a kid hanging there after BP shows up and people around him start throwing rocks at an armed officer with gun drawn.
The pause between the officer pointing his gun and the actual shot fits the story of him issuing a warning before firing.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/219 "2010-06-19T18:11:37Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> If you watch the video, and as I have already posted, you will see that the ones trying to enter the US were all trying to return to México, they were no longer attempting to enter the USA. The BP could easily have let the one he subdued continue on into México. Isn’t it his job to prohibit people from crossing the border illegally? If they were all returning to our side of the border what exactly was the point in apprehending the guy in the first place? He will have to processed etc and that takes resources away from the BP to watch the border.
I’ve already dealt with this in another response. Just showing up and scaring them back to Mexico seems like a pretty bad way to protect our borders.
> [@](#):
>
> The BP agent could have simply retreated up the side of the American side out of range of any rock thrower and made sure no one was going to cross through that hole in the fence. But that would take intelligence and the BP in this case appears to have little.
He could have and maybe he should have , or as I’ve suggested , some warning shots to scare them off rather than trying to hit someone. I’m afraid retreating would only encourage projectile attacks in the future. Guidelines and procedures are great but we can’t completely tie the hands of officers from making a judgement call.
Still, it appears to me , since he had his weapon drawn and there was a pause , he did issue the warning reported although we can’t be sure. Why the hell would anyone throw rocks at a guy with a gun pointed at them?
I try not to jump to conclusions about anyone. We don’t know about the officer’s record or the boys. I’m very sorry the kid was killed but I’m not eager to blame an officer doing a difficult job. It’s a tragedy made up of a bunch of circumstances.
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### Author:  [@Red\_Hoodie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Hoodie)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/220 "2010-06-19T18:12:32Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> I hope someday if you have children one will get fucked up real good by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because they will only be getting what they deserve.
I’m pretty sure my kids will have both the common sense and the upbringing to know better than to fuck with men with guns, for starters. Didn’t you ungraciously bow out of this thread a while ago, anyways? Why did you come back? You must live on hatred; as much as people’s replies piss you off, you can’t stay away once you cop out. Get a life. It wasn’t your fucking kid. And if you have such a problem with America, remind us all again why the fuck _you’re_ here?
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