# Can we shoot back?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 10, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596 "2010-06-10T00:31:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/161 "2010-06-16T18:46:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Where do you think all those drugs are going? :dubious:
Why is everyone looking at me?
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/162 "2010-06-16T19:23:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Can we also talk about the 2394 homicides in California last year?
>
> Where do you think all those drugs are going? :dubious:
The same place the illegal mexicans are?
Seems to me Mexico’s biggest export is illegal stuff.
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### Author:  [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/163 "2010-06-16T19:27:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Can we also talk about the 2394 homicides in California last year?
>
> Where do you think all those drugs are going? :dubious:
Sure we can, but that’s not what the OP was eluding to. His approach and context was more ‘America is violent against Mexicans’ at least that’s how I took it and to that I said, ‘take the log from your own eye’ in a manner of speaking.
The people of Mexico and the people of the US are complicit in the drug trade. Mexico profits from the travel in their country, the US doesn’t have the political will to do what it takes to address the drug problem and sure, we bear some responsibility, but America didn’t dirty up the cops, America didn’t chase 150k soldiers from the military, America didn’t force poverty on anyone. The majority of the things that seem to be wrong with Mexico, as well as the people who are causing them, seem to be home grown. Please correct me if I’m wrong…
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### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/164 "2010-06-16T21:07:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Can we also talk about the 2394 homicides in California last year?
What’s the population of Juarez? 1.5 million? And the population of California is almost 37 million? I’m not sure that strengthens your case, if I’m understanding your point correctly.
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### Author:  [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/165 "2010-06-16T21:53:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Can we also talk about the 2394 homicides in California last year?
>
> Where do you think all those drugs are going? :dubious:
You want to compare stats for a city with the most populous state in America? And how many California homocides are related to Mexican drug trafficing by illegals ?
Canada, a poulation similar to California had 611 homicides in 2008. We don’t have very much in the way of illegals, but I expect our drug consumption is on par with california.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/166 "2010-06-17T00:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Can we also talk about the 2394 homicides in California last year?
[/QUOTE]
Seriously man…do a google search on the population of California then compare it to the population of Juarez. After you do that, think about what it means and how ridiculous the above is as a comparison.
-XT
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/167 "2010-06-17T00:51:24Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> Given that its a border nobody seems to respect, riff with illegals, guns, and drugs flowing across it, why the hell NOT?
See the thing is, noone really cared all that much before the guns. When it was just illegals coming across the border with a satchel of pot, it wasn’t a big deal (I’m talking the 1970’s and 1980’s), I think its the guns that are making this such a big issue.
> [@xtisme](#):
>
> It hasn’t been that way in a LONG time. Again people, we are talking about Juarez here. I know that doesn’t mean anything to some non-US dopers or even US 'dopers from parts far from the border, but this is a place that has one of (if not THE) highest murder rate per capita in the freaking WORLD.
Its been 25 years since I was in Laredo and I understand that things have gottena lot more violent in Juarez. Do you think we should send in the army and just take out the criminals in Juarez? Or should we send tanks to secure the Juarez border?
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> :dubious: Then you didn’t do it right.
>
> Keep trying.
And how the heck is he supposed to know if he ever does it right if doing it right means he won’t remember?
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> It most assuredly is. Throwing a rock at someone is attempting to kill them. The rock will smash your head in regardless of who throws it.
Bullshit. Watch the video.
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> This confrontation reminded me of another “Kids Throwing Rocks vs. The State Shooting Guns” episode, but on a much larger scale. I think the principle is the same…
> I don’t think that anyone concerned is going to live a happy life with the memory of a dead fifteen year old child. And no matter how corrupt the kid was, that is still what he was.
I suspect some of the posters in this board would sleep just fine after killing a 15 year old kid.
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> He wasn’t executed, you moron. He was shot in self-defense as he tried to murder a U.S. officer. And if you can’t see that, there is no hope for you.
I agree he wasn’t executed but he wasn’t trying to murder anyone either. Watch the video.
> [@toofs](#):
>
> Isn’t stoning a method of execution in some parts of the world?
Yep, and you know how close you get when you throw those rocks? You aren’t 10 yards away thats for sure.
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> I have no particular problems with this, especially as cited upthread the Mexican police and military (in addition to the illegal immigrants and smugglers) violate the border all the damn time.
Perhaps we should send tanks rolling into Juarez and just clean the place out. hmm?
> [@](#):
>
> Yes. In a world where a single person can cause vastly disproportionate damage, and in which we are a common target as a nation of terrorist attacks of that nature, every border incursion is essentially a potential invasion/attack.
So this IS about terrorism? Then I imagine that we should exercise the same level of diligence along the Canadian border?
I don’t like it. I would love a world where it wasn’t the case.
> [@](#):
>
> As I said above, there’s no racism in me.
Bullshit, there is racism in virtually everybody, if you’re decent, you try not to let it affect your decisions but tell me you aren’t more likely to cross the street to avoid a group of loud young black males than a group of loud young white males.
> [@buttonjockey308](#):
>
> Listen skipper, the bottom line is this; the kid was a known asshole in an area where known assholes usually gather. He did something stupid while he was there and was shot and killed. Sad day when a 15 year old is that known asshole, but it happens.
Listen up gilligan, the bottom line is the CBP agent had no idea who the kid was when he shot him dead, he just knew he was a kid. A kid. I haven’t seen proof that he threw rocks at him but I think our society had decided long ago that shooting bullets was not an appropriate response to throwing rocks. The response was more than disproportionate.
> [@](#):
>
> America is no longer just protecting its’ borders from so-titled ‘illegals’ who come here to seek a better life. Rather, we must now do what we can to hold back the whirlwind of violence that threatens our people and our way of life as well as our security.
OK, so if we can get rid of the violence along the border do we go back to ignoring the idiots that want to withhold birth certificates and shoot 15 year olds?
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### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/168 "2010-06-17T01:23:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Perhaps we should send tanks rolling into Juarez and just clean the place out. hmm?
Why would I advocate us doing to Mexico what I am so adamant that Mexicans don’t do to us?
> [@](#):
>
> So this IS about terrorism? Then I imagine that we should exercise the same level of diligence along the Canadian border?
Terrorism, drugs, etc. Immigration is the least of my worries in terms of border security.
> [@](#):
>
> Bullshit, there is racism in virtually everybody, if you’re decent, you try not to let it affect your decisions but tell me you aren’t more likely to cross the street to avoid a group of loud young black males than a group of loud young white males.
I live in a relatively white college town. I avoid groups of frat guys (speaking AS a frat guy) far more readily than I avoid groups of black guys.
In practice, I’m big and male and confident in my self-defense ability, and I very rarely cross the street to avoid anyone.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/169 "2010-06-17T02:14:13Z")
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Its been 25 years since I was in Laredo and I understand that things have gottena lot more violent in Juarez. Do you think we should send in the army and just take out the criminals in Juarez? Or should we send tanks to secure the Juarez border?
[/QUOTE]
Um, no. Who is saying this? You are excluding the middle position, which is that the border is a dangerous place, sticking our heads in the sand and doing nothing (which seemingly is what you are advocating) is not an option, therefore we need to patrol the border, and since it’s sort of dangerous that means the folks patrolling it will be armed, which, QED means you shouldn’t throw rocks at them, since this may be hazardous to your health.
No tanks needed. Thanks for playing, here is your ceramic dog and the board game version of Straight Dope: The Pit. Have a nice day…
-XT
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/170 "2010-06-17T02:43:38Z")
Well why? If the real concern is the violence spilling over the mexican border to our side then why not go in and clean out what the mexican government is having so much trouble with?
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/171 "2010-06-17T02:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
If the real concern is the violence spilling over the mexican border to our side then why not go in and clean out what the mexican government is having so much trouble with?
[/QUOTE]
Because it’s not the US’s country, gringo. It isn’t our territory. Patrolling OUR side of the border is our right. Patrolling their side isn’t.
Seems simple enough to me.
-XT
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### Author:  [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/172 "2010-06-17T03:00:13Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> The same place the illegal mexicans are?
>
> Seems to me Mexico’s biggest export is illegal stuff.
Seems to me Mexico’s biggest export is Mexicans.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/173 "2010-06-17T03:03:11Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> [Moderating]
> **Bricker** , **CBEscapee** , and anyone else I might have missed: please keep in mind that one of the requirements of posting here is posting in English. Posts entirely in a non-English language are a violation of the user agreement.
>
> No warning issued.
> [/Moderating]
Mi aerodeslizador esta lleno de anguilas.
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/174 "2010-06-17T03:05:39Z")
> [@toofs](#):
>
> Seems to me Mexico’s biggest export is Mexicans.
I think you missed the joke there sparky.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/175 "2010-06-17T04:28:13Z")
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> I respect human beings more than I respect borders.
So do I. I don’t respect people who throw rocks, though. You can’t tell me you wouldn’t fight back if someone was throwing rocks at you.
(I believe in some middle eastern countries, women are still stoned to death for adultery? Or at least, if they’re accused of it)
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### Author:  [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/176 "2010-06-17T05:20:09Z")
Ah…good ol’ **CB** , back in his old “Everyone else is at fault” shell.
Hey, **CB** …[my kids have not thrown rocks at anyone since we last posted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6959791&postcount=44) and guess what? They are still alive! I’m Father of the Year for 5 straight years now! Woot!
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### Author:  [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/177 "2010-06-17T05:58:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Well why? If the real concern is the violence spilling over the mexican border to our side then why not go in and clean out what the mexican government is having so much trouble with?
That would be an act of war. Hell, it would be pretty much an unofficial declaration of war.
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/178 "2010-06-17T06:03:38Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#):
>
> Ah…good ol’ **CB** , back in his old “Everyone else is at fault” shell.
>
> Hey, **CB** …[my kids have not thrown rocks at anyone since we last posted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6959791&postcount=44) and guess what? They are still alive! I’m Father of the Year for 5 straight years now! Woot!
Wow. Talk about your deja vu.
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/179 "2010-06-17T12:58:47Z")
The kid has never been shown to have thrown a rock yet many people on this thread have judged him guilty. Why is that?
He was also not on US territory nor appears to be any of the men in the video attempting to enter the US, certainly not an illegal alien, yet some here accuse him of that. Why is that?
He was smeared by an anonymous source as being an immigrant smuggler yet there is absolutely nothing that supports this. But many here also accept that as the truth. Why is that?
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-shoot-back/542596/180 "2010-06-17T15:46:11Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> That would be an act of war. Hell, it would be pretty much an unofficial declaration of war.
Aren’t people saying that the mexican army routinely crosses our border?
If they can’t control their people then why can’t we? Why do we only shoot the Mexicans that are within range of the border, why not go in and get the ones taht are out of small arms range if they are exporting violence to America?
How is shooting a kid that is in Mexico (who might have been throwing rocks) any better than killing ruthless gansters and murderers that are a mile or two inside the border?
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