I’d be very curious to see how he justifies his actions, too.
You don’t have to be nice in order to feel good about yourself for doing what you see as you filial duty. I feel good about myself for looking after my mother. I don’t feel much of anything for her beyond wishing her well. Nice isn’t part of the equation.
Whatever he has done in the past, she’s not finding the relationship emotionally rewarding in the present. I read a definition of forgiveness once that seems to apply here: “Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.” If she could forgive like this, she could let go of the past, and then see her father or not for her own present-day reasons. No more cheeseless tunnel.
There are bad things and Bad Things. “Still his/her parent” isn’t a free pass with no expiration date. It’s up to the child whether to maintain that tie for his/her own reasons.
I don’t know - for me to forgive someone, I have to have a sense that they’re sorry for what they did. I’m not getting an impression here that the father in question feels like he did anything wrong.
Sounds like he was a guy with an extended extra-marital affair. Even if your state recognizes common law marriage (most don’t anymore), it would not recognize one for a guy who was already legally married to someone else. No big deal, and I know you’re a lawyer and all, but it doesn’t seem like it’s that complicated a legal issue. The kids, of course, are his and they can use his last name regardless of marriage, but “wife” #2 is not a legal wife. She may have some claims on him if he’s agreed, even verbally, to provide financial support, but she’s not a legal wife.
I understand that doesn’t make much difference in terms of your situation, but I was just curious as to whether he had gone so far as to have two marriage certificates and might therefore be in some serious legal trouble.
Any other info about the dinner?
How has he treated your wife? He left her mom (without bothering with the detail of formally divorcing her, until she found out about #2, I guess) and wasn’t very present in her childhood. Was he cruel when he did see her? Has he been decent to her since?
I’m very into family. I have a lot of family, and take family ties seriously. And I’m tolerant of non-monogamy. I have a bunch of friends in mutually consensual polyamorous relationships. (Including a family where two women live with a guy, and one of the women bore twins with eggs from the other woman’s daughter, and the guy’s sperm. :))
But there’s a point where it’s not worth it. There’s a point where you say “this person isn’t interesting in maintaining a relationship with me, and I’m not getting anything out of this.”
Bold added.
I know what you mean, BUT this is a very limited stance to take. Why should your peace of mind depend on whether some asshole tool ever sees the light? Anyway, how do you forgive someone who’s dead? Forgiveness is not for THEM-- it doesn’t let anyone off the hook (and believe me, I’m a world-class grudge holder). Forgiveness lets YOU off the hook.
If she wants to keep going to these dinners, she’s going to have to come up with a way to do it that doesn’t keep pouring salt in her own wound. Her father is clearly oblivious. It’s about healing HER and making it possible for her to feel okay about herself, NOT about telling her father what he did was okay. If it were me, I’d stop going to the dinners and probably never speak to him again. But she wants to keep going… because she keeps hoping for a good relationship (cheese) at the end of the (cheeseless) tunnel. That’s the difference between people and rats. Eventually rats stop going down the tunnel looking for cheese when they figure out there’s no cheese. Some people NEVER stop looking.
It’s a difficult concept to grasp, I will admit. And I’m not good at it. But the principle is sound.
Please, you really don’t want to go there.
No, there has never really been an apology - certainly not equal to the transgression. More along the lines of, “I’ve done things I regret.” To the contrary, he has actually said things like he deserves credit for supporting TWO families in better style than most men support one! :smack:
No, he is not at all a nice person. A pathological liar (which may be required of - what i am calling - a bigamist.) Chauvinist, the biggest bigot I’ve known personally, and perhaps worst of all - a Trump supporter! 
I think the biggest factor is that he is my wife’s father, and even in her 50s, and after countless disappointments, she is hoping for some answers, and some type of fulfilling relationship. I don’t think I have to tell folk around here that people can be weird where family is involved.
Another goofy factor is constantly wondering who knew what when. They had a big circle of friends. Even through this recent dinner, we get hints that folk we had thought were decent people were aware of and associated with both sets of families. Just too fucking weird to imagine.
As far as rationale, my strong suspicion is FIL wanted a son and heir. He had 3 kids with wife1, and she has several miscarriages. Then, a few years later, he had a “mistake” with his mistress. Oops - another girl. Then a couple of years later out popped bastard Jr. and - whaddyaknow? No mre mistakes!
And John, he has since married wife2. And we have seen documents showing most of his property in now held jointly with wife2 and their 2 kids. Much of the property that should have gone to (now deceased) wife1 never did, as she failed to enforce the settlement.
This is awfully strong: it suggests that you feel like she has a moral responsibility to not associate with him. I totally agree that she has no obligation to, but I don’t think she’s a bad person because of it. If her mother was alive and asked her not to, I could see that argument, but the woman has passed.
I think “bigamist” is more accurate here. It’s certainly how I’d describe the situation. Finding out as an adult that your entire life your father had had a second family as important to him as your own–that you had siblings you didn’t even know existed that had known your father as their own, and as a regular presence in your life: that’s a mindfuck. That’s reevaluating every memory you have because literally everything he told you was likely at least in part a lie. Saying “my parents divorced when I was an adult because my father had a long-term affair” leaves out some crucial facts about that situation.
You mentioned mercenary reasons somewhere above. (And, I acknowledge, in the past tense.) But truly, talk to your wife if you haven’t already about the need to erase from her mind any ideas about inheriting anything.
Either he really isn’t as wealthy as you think (they may be barely getting by living off of their interest) or wife2 is making darn sure that no further assets get “wasted” on family1 ever again. Even to include an extra run of the dishwasher, apparently.
It’s not easy being estranged from parents, and people will judge you horribly for it. But sometimes it’s the only way to stay sane. If these visits are just a source of great stories, then go for it. But if they are dragging you down, or an overall negative, skip 'em. There’s nothing to be gained from cultivating bedrock.
This is the wrongy-ist thing I’ve read all day.
I can empathize with the wife. It took me absolutely forever to let go of the longing for a loving father, and he was one of the most abusive ones around. There is the Doper who posts about a similar situation with her mother and how hard it was to give her up.
Naw, man. Believe me - we well understand that that ship has sailed.
I was referring to a time decades ago, when we were less financially established than we are now, and when this whole situation was newer (and rawer) for us. After several years of no contact, we went through a period of calculating whether spending x hours with him would be worth y dollars in birthday/x-mas gifts, etc. But that proved unsustainable for us.
I’d conservatively estimate his net worth at $5-10 mill. Possibly more, doubtfully less. In his 80s, still active in running a very profitable sole proprietorship. You make your own judgment as to whether that is or is not wealthy.
Like I said, he screwed wife1 in the divorce, and she screwed her kids even more by not enforcing parts of it. After wife1 died, FIL has said things strongly suggesting that wife1’s estate was kids1’s share, and that all he had remaining would go to wife/kids2. Which is - on one level - fine. Like I said, we have provided for ourselves. And the amount we inherited from wife1 was not inconsequential. But as much as you try not to let it bother you, it is at least somewhat vexxing to perceive that other siblings are being treated differently/better than you.
We’ve seen various properties be deeded to wife2 and kids2. And his sone and wife2 are active in his business. Wife2 is at least a decade younger than him, and we’re confident she has gotten herself as tied into FIL’s properties and interests as she could. So we expect nothing. It WOULD be nice, however, if he made some provision for our kids/grandkids, but he gets to say what to do with his estate.
The only thing that really hurts is a family vacation home. My wife spent large parts of her childhood there. We went there often with our kids. We spent considerable time/$ maintaining and improving the place, with the expectation that it would eventually be my wife’s and her siblings. Really hurt to see only wife2’s and kids2’s names on the deed - but that was over a decade ago.
We spent years hating him. But we found life too short to expend a significant portion of your emotion actively hating someone that way. My wife might be too emotional, and I might be too emotionless. It is odd how often well-intentioned folk will say things like, “He’s your father. Of course he loves you!” Well, my wife keeps looking for proof that he does, and that proof continues to prove elusive. Who am I to say whether she would be a better/happier person for continuing to seek some sort of a relationship, as opposed to cutting all ties?
Very kind of you. 
In my family this happened after I had left home. My mother had divorced Bad Man at this point, but a few years later she up and married him again. (Insert infinite number of eyerolls here). He was in the business of buying and selling racehorses, which evidently involves a lot of traveling, or at least it can if you want it to and you’re a big fucking liar. The other woman was in another state and they had an eight-year old kid together. I believe the other woman figured it out first and started blackmailing Bad Man, then Mom started wondering where all the money was going. I don’t know what happened to Bad Man, other than that Mom divorced him again.
Yeah - in a sick way, finding out sorta explained some things. Like feeling that dad seemed uninvolved/uninterested. And that he always got the blues over holidays.
We also don’t know how much wife1 knew when. To be kind, she was the type of person who was self-interested and happy to be supported in a certain lifestyle. Had her own difficulties with the truth.
Supposedly wife1 found out about the other kids via an anonymous letter. At times wondered if wife2 wrote the letter.
Plenty of opportunity for stress w/ siblings as they dealt with the various parties differently at different times and in different situations.
Just a whole bunch of baggage you really don’t need piled on top of the stuff life in general tosses at you.
But overall, not complaining. Wife, I, and our kids are doing great.
This is best revenge. “Hi FIL, thanks for letting us use the real china. We’re doing fine without your help. Have a nice life.”
Maybe some guys really, really like having two mothers-in-law.
Yeah, I dunno either. When you think of the logistics, why the HELL would anyone take that on? And why would the other woman want to do that, without the legal protection of marriage? (Monetarily, everything worked out pretty well for wife2 and her kids.)
With my FIL, I think he sorta thought he was above many social conventions. He’s always been a wheeler dealer. Many of his business dealings have been unethical and flat out illegal. But he figures if it is to his advantage and he doesn’t get caught, he’ll do it. I imagine some thread of that underlay his starting a second family.
And there can also be an element of things getting out of hand incrementally. Which I sorta put down as a lack of character. Someone has an affair, then he starts giving the other party more money, maybe sets them up in an apartment, then knocks her up, and eventually he convinces himself he’s doing the stand-up thing by supporting both families.
I don’t understand it. To me it’s pretty simple. If you want to sleep around or have kids with someone else, get a divorce. Or give your spouse a chance to divorce you.
Aside from a perpetual migraine?
I am guessing nothing?
Be glad your wife’s not a Lindbergh.
I’m guessing a large ego plays into it.