# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/341 "2014-11-23T06:13:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Right. If your spouse tells you that you have to change your evening plans because the babysitter cancelled, so you expect to see a sworn statement from the babysitter? > > We don’t need court-admissible levels of evidence unless we are trying to prove something in court. We’re not talking about babysitters, we are talking about rape. Hearsay isn’t good enough if you are going to accuse someone and potentially ruin their career and their life. I don’t know these women and I surely don’t know if they were raped or not. All I know for a fact is that none of them reported it or went to a hospital or testified in court, and there is no corroborating evidence at all. All of them claim it now, but not one of them was willing to report it and maybe stop a future rape. And Cosby can’t possibly defend himself against any of it because the majority of these accusations take place decades ago. I’m just very surprised how many people are willing to take a stranger’s word for something like this, when there are clear ulterior motives possible for accusing a celebrity in this manner. Some of them, I think they just don’t like Cosby. There are others though who I think just don’t like men. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/342 "2014-11-23T07:48:46Z")
You don’t know Cosby, either. They’re all strangers to you. Why would you think you “know” someone just because you’ve seen him on tv? In this case, it’s a question of taking the word of one stranger - although really, has he even bothered to deny this? - over the word of a dozen strangers. And I don’t have to decide if he goes to jail. I just have to decide if he’s someone I’d want to watch on tv, next year. That’s the only real question any of us are called on to make here. Why would anyone need court-room type evidence to answer that question? We decide that all the time without needing to go CSI on the topic, about people who haven’t even been accused of anything. Oh and he doesn’t seem to understand the difference between innuendo and accusations. Or else he’s lying about that and he knows it’s not innuedno but is using that word to make the word accusation seem trivial. Either way, he’s a jerk and I don’t want to watch his show. See how easy that is? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/343 "2014-11-23T09:20:21Z")
None of us know him. He made sure the women he drugged and raped were not in a position to “know”( identify) him either. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/344 "2014-11-23T09:56:38Z")
Just discovered that Bill Cosby has been receiving standing ovations at his recent performances. Since I’ve seen no credible evidence to date that he ever truly raped anyone, I have to say I’m pleased to see that many amongst us are not falling for the despicable media-driven internet lynching that he is being subjected to. [Cite](http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/bill-cosby-jokes-about-being-an-evil-man-gets-standing-ovation-in-first-performance) [Cite](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bill-cosby-scandal/bill-cosby-gets-standing-ovation-florida-theater-n253996) ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/345 "2014-11-23T10:23:58Z")
So how many actresses - like the hulks wife and that law and order actress come forward before people stop with this unsubstantiated stuff? Perhaps I don’t know what substantiated means. I always thought it meant not supported by other evidence. We know these women (at least some of them) worked with Cosby. We know many have similar stories. When multiple actresses that have already had their 15 minutes of fame come forward - supporting what other women have said - how are people still defending this guy? Yeah - he shouldn’t be put in jail without a trial. This isn’t a court. He paid a woman 100,000 to cover up an affair and possible love child - has used attorneys to suppress negative stories, settled a lawsuit accusing him of the same thing (yes I know people do this to avoid trials sometimes), but what exactly to people think they are going to find? And his attorneys are obviously lying - while some of these allegations are old - some are not. They have gone after one of the women cause she was disbarred or something. He was taking advantage of women in weak places. Of course some are bound to have issues. There are millions of women with issues - none deserve this. He was extorted - and went to the police. If these other women are after his money - and had made attempts to collect - he’d probably report those too. So if by next month ten actresses with IMDB credits come forward - will that be enough? If not - how many before the doubters consider this “substantiation”? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/346 "2014-11-23T10:43:46Z")
Lou Ferrigno’s wife did not accuse Cosby of raping her. One report said he tried to kiss her at a party, another said he did kiss her in the basement of his house after his wife left the room. Michelle Hurd (the Law and Order actress) did not accuse him of rape either. She said he inappropriately touched her – whatever that means. To answer your question, people are still defending the guy because even though his accusers are numerous, their stories don’t add up to rape. Some of these women maintained relationships with Cosby for decades after their so-called rapes. Some were encouraged to get an education and had their schooling paid for by him. Some received financial aid in times of need. I don’t know why these women came forward ten years ago and I don’t know why they’re doing it now. My guess is that they have different reasons, ranging all the way from resentment due to having felt used by him, to having been cut off financially by him, to wanting their 15 minutes of fame, to potentially hitting the jackpot via civil suits or settlements. There is so much exaggeration and phony bullshit accompanying many of these women’s statements, and so many sensational and outright dishonest headlines being used to convince people of the horrors that Cosby has supposedly inflicted on all these women, that to believe any of it unreservedly would require complete abandonment of critical thinking, which unfortunately many on this board (not saying this is you) and in the population at large seem more than happy to do. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/347 "2014-11-23T12:08:36Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > We’re not talking about babysitters, we are talking about rape. Hearsay isn’t good enough if you are going to accuse someone and potentially ruin their career and their life. 1. The concept of hearsay is relevant only in a legal proceeding. Outside a court, we get to judge what people say. 2. You don’t even know what “hearsay” means. It means a person reporting a statement by a second person not present for the truth of the matter in the reported statement. “Cosby raped me” is not hearsay, not according to standards of evidence in American law. > [@](#): > > I don’t know these women and I surely don’t know if they were raped or not. It is valid to judge the credibility of people you don’t know given the circumstances. > [@](#): > > All I know for a fact is that none of them reported it or went to a hospital or testified in court, and there is no corroborating evidence at all. All of them claim it now, but not one of them was willing to report it and maybe stop a future rape. Every single one of these facts is routine in the case of sexual assault. There are many good reasons for women who are assaulted to avoid doing all these things. If you know any women at all then you know at least one woman who has been sexually assaulted, didn’t go to the hospital, didn’t go to court, and didn’t report it. None of that means it dined not happen. > [@](#): > > And Cosby can’t possibly defend himself against any of it because the majority of these accusations take place decades ago. That’s why we have a statute of limitations for criminal prosecution. It doesn’t apply to public opinion. [quoyre]I’m just very surprised how many people are willing to take a stranger’s word for something like this, when there are clear ulterior motives possible for accusing a celebrity in this manner. Some of them, I think they just don’t like Cosby. There are others though who I think just don’t like men. [/QUOTE] you say “stranger” as if that’s automatically a suspect class. The ulterior motives for a situation like this are neither clear mid especially compelling. There’s little to gain on the part of all these women. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/348 "2014-11-23T13:23:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Lou Ferrigno’s wife did not accuse Cosby of raping her. One report said he tried to kiss her at a party, another said he did kiss her in the basement of his house after his wife left the room. She accused him of sexual assault, and I see nothing to indicate any lack of credibility in her accusations. > [@](#): > > Michelle Hurd (the Law and Order actress) did not accuse him of rape either. She said he inappropriately touched her – whatever that means. It means groping (running his hands up and down her body), which is sexual assault. Again, what did she say that lacks credibility? > [@](#): > > To answer your question, people are still defending the guy because even though his accusers are numerous, their stories don’t add up to rape. Many of the stories do “add up to rape”. Most of the others add up to sexual assault. A few might just be inappropriate behavior – and there’s nothing wrong with telling stories about inappropriate behavior, assuming it’s true. So far, no one’s brought up anything that would indicate a lack of credibility except typical “blame the victim” BS. > [@](#): > > Some of these women maintained relationships with Cosby for decades after their so-called rapes. Some were encouraged to get an education and had their schooling paid for by him. Some received financial aid in times of need. None of this justifies or excuses the rape. Rape is wrong even when a woman acts strangely afterwards. Have you seriously never heard of women who try to justify their own rape and blame themselves in the immediate aftermath, only to realize later that they were actually raped? > [@](#): > > I don’t know why these women came forward ten years ago and I don’t know why they’re doing it now. My guess is that they have different reasons, ranging all the way from resentment due to having felt used by him, to having been cut off financially by him, to wanting their 15 minutes of fame, to potentially hitting the jackpot via civil suits or settlements. You didn’t include “were actually raped and/or sexually assaulted and wanted to tell the truth”. > [@](#): > > There is so much exaggeration and phony bullshit accompanying many of these women’s statements, Like what? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/349 "2014-11-23T14:06:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Just discovered that Bill Cosby has been receiving standing ovations at his recent performances. Well, there you go. Nobody who gets cheers from an adoring crowd can possibly be a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/350 "2014-11-23T14:23:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Just discovered that Bill Cosby has been receiving standing ovations at his recent performances. Since I’ve seen no credible evidence to date that he ever truly raped anyone, I have to say I’m pleased to see that many amongst us are not falling for the despicable media-driven internet lynching that he is being subjected to. > > [Cite](http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/bill-cosby-jokes-about-being-an-evil-man-gets-standing-ovation-in-first-performance) > > [Cite](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bill-cosby-scandal/bill-cosby-gets-standing-ovation-florida-theater-n253996) Heh. You realize the audience that gave the rapist a standing o consists of people who paid for tickets to see him? His fans? Put him in a Q&A in front of a randomly selected group of people and I think things would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/351 "2014-11-23T14:57:14Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Earlier in the thread, people were asking why no one was supporting Bill Cosby, as though the lack of support meant something. You just gave a reason. Anyone who shows any skepticism or even puts their voice in the fray will get dragged into the mud right along with him. There’s no upside to that. If somehow Bill Cosby gets miraculously cleared, the people who stood up for him don’t get shining stars on their reputation for standing up for him. > > Even in this thread, people who show any skepticism or would like to see a few more questions answered before rushing to judgment are getting labeled with all kinds of negative remarks. This is exactly what is making me so uncomfortable about this whole thing. It’s turning from an internet pile-on to a witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/352 "2014-11-23T15:32:14Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > This is exactly what is making me so uncomfortable about this whole thing. It’s turning from an internet pile-on to a witch hunt. Serious question: What’s the difference? What is the new element that makes it what you call a witch hunt and not (or not just) what you call an internet pile-on? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/353 "2014-11-23T15:38:00Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Serious question: What’s the difference? What is the new element that makes it what you call a witch hunt and not (or not just) what you call an internet pile-on? I feel the malice is increasing. Pile-ons are more gossip-oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/354 "2014-11-23T15:43:05Z")
There’s a pattern that repeats often in society: A accuses B of a crime. Some people then say, “Well, let’s not jump to conclusions so quickly. Let’s let due process, evidence, the facts, and all arguments from all side have their day first.” A’s supporters then promptly attack such people, saying, “The fact that you won’t jump to conclusions immediately, like the rest of us, means you SUPPORT B and his/her actions!” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/355 "2014-11-23T15:43:27Z")
It seems to me that the latest-emerging statements of not-rape, but inappropriate-to-assaultive sexual behavior, are coming from women who believe that their statements are comments on Cosby’s character, intended to support the credibility of the more-serious accusations. “He didn’t rape _me_, but he is the kind of guy who would do _this_. Just so you know, when you consider what these other women have said.” And _that_ is a reasonable thing to do. On their part, and on ours. As I said, everybody makes these kinds of assessments all the time. That’s all any of us are doing, or can do, here. Because _we are not jurors in any court proceeding_. If your personal estimation of Cosby’s character and the circumstances gives his denial-by-lawyer and refusal to talk to reporters a sheen of greater authenticity than the content and plausibility of _all_ the claims against him… well, you are entitled to that judgment, for yourself. But stop pretending that you’re applying some kind of rigorous, principled standard that the ‘mob’ is failing at. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/356 "2014-11-23T15:52:18Z")
To be clear, the giving and weighing positive character testimony is appropriate and reasonable as well. The number of women describing Cosby as a respectful gentleman does seem to be running behind the other sort, but we are all free to reckon the significance as we see fit. It is the same process. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/357 "2014-11-23T17:08:54Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > You don’t know Cosby, either. They’re all strangers to you. Why would you think you “know” someone just because you’ve seen him on tv? I never said I knew him and, more importantly, I never said he was innocent. What I’ve said is that, from what has been presented, it isn’t enough for me to make that determination. What bothers me is that the lynch mob has already convicted him, based on accusations which may or not be credible. No benefit of the doubt whatsoever. So, one wonders, what is the motive of someone who can be easily convinced without any solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/358 "2014-11-23T17:12:45Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > None of us know him. > He made sure the women he drugged and raped were not in a position to “know”( identify) him either. One of the most successful comedians in the world at the time made sure that they weren’t in a position to identify him? Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/359 "2014-11-23T17:25:34Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > So, one wonders, what is the motive of someone who can be easily convinced without any solid evidence. The evidence is solid enough for reasonable certainty. A large number of women coming forward, almost none with anything to gain, all telling similar stories, many of these independently, apparently _no one_ who knows him saying this is implausible (which wouldn’t show much but that it’s not even happening just lays more weight against him), what we know about his attitudes from some of his early comedy routines, his acknowledged patterns of behavior with young women matching known patterns of grooming, etc. As far as I know there’s nothing to gain a conviction in a courtroom. But we’re not a courtroom. We’re people making reasonable conjectures from what we know. The most likely explanation for the above evidence is that Cosby has raped some women. Other explanations require ad hoc, often conspiratorial reasoning. Many who defend him actually go so far as to allow that events have happened as basically described but have excused the actions as not really rape! ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/360 "2014-11-23T17:28:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. The concept of hearsay is relevant only in a legal proceeding. Outside a court, we get to judge what people say. > > 2. You don’t even know what “hearsay” means. It means a person reporting a statement by a second person not present for the truth of the matter in the reported statement. “Cosby raped me” is not hearsay, not according to standards of evidence in American law. Words have meanings aside from their legal definitions. Here is another definition: > [@](#): > > noun: hearsay > > information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor. > [@](#): > > It is valid to judge the credibility of people you don’t know given the circumstances. That’s your set of morals, not mine. Another poster mentioned having been falsely accused of a crime. I was as well when I was a teenager many years ago. It cost my family a lot of money that we didn’t have to defend me against these charges.Thankfully, they were thrown out the minute we got to court. There were a number of people at the time that were convinced I had done this, despite the fact that the accuser was lying through his teeth, simply because of what they had “heard” from others. So continue to judge people all you like despite not really knowing if it is true or not. Perhaps some day you will be judged by a lot of people who have no evidence and you will understand. > [@](#): > > The ulterior motives for a situation like this are neither clear mid especially compelling. There’s little to gain on the part of all these women. Many of these women were aspiring actresses who now have their mug plastered on television across the nation. No, I can’t think of any ulterior motives at all. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=19)