# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/361 "2014-11-23T17:30:12Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > Many of these women were aspiring actresses who now have their mug plastered on television across the nation. No, I can’t think of any ulterior motives at all. :rolleyes: You think having one’s face associated with all this is going to help anyone land a role? Doubtful. Also, key word is “were”–most of the women involved aren’t even in the business anymore, at least not in front of the camera. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/362 "2014-11-23T17:38:36Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Even in this thread, people who show any skepticism or would like to see a few more questions answered before rushing to judgment are getting labeled with all kinds of negative remarks. And in the Pit thread, [get accused of being rapists (well, “likely rapists”) themselves](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17921856&postcount=37). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/363 "2014-11-23T17:44:45Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > What I’ve said is that, from what has been presented, it isn’t enough for me to make that determination. Yes, you get to decide your own mind. Kindly accord others the same right. > [@](#): > > What bothers me is that the lynch mob has already convicted him, based on accusations which may or not be credible. No benefit of the doubt whatsoever. Many people find the accusations, and accusers, credible. Or at least enough of them to make up _their_ minds to the likely truth of the matter. And frankly, from what I’ve seen and heard, Cosby has been afforded quite a remarkable degree of benefit-of-doubt, going back years. Many people have spoken of their resistance to the idea, the conflict with the feelings they had of the man from his acting and his voice in the public sphere. I think most who now think of Cosby as a sexual abuser came to their conclusion reluctantly, and often with considerable anguish. Indeed, that is probably an element of the story’s fire. We are come to despise him not just for what he did to these women (in which he is not unique), but for betraying the respect and affection we gave him, thinking he was the good man he portrayed. And I don’t mean Cliff Huxtable. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/364 "2014-11-23T17:54:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And in the Pit thread, [get accused of being rapists (well, “likely rapists”) themselves](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17921856&postcount=37). But you have already said you aren’t defending Cosby, and my comment was directed at _some_ of the people who _are_ defending him. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/365 "2014-11-23T18:30:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > But you have already said you aren’t defending Cosby, and my comment was directed at _some_ of the people who _are_ defending him. Yeah, right. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/366 "2014-11-23T18:33:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Yeah, right. :dubious: I honestly don’t understand what you’re thinking here. I haven’t seen anything from you that would suggest you might be a rapist. I don’t know why you would think otherwise. Do you really not see some of the comments from a couple of the other posters that might lead to that kind of speculation? Do you really not see a substantial difference between those posts and your own? If you honestly have no idea what I’m talking about, then I’m sorry to be so mysterious but I think it would probably be breaking either a rule or a norm for me to name names here. I generally expected it would be obvious, but maybe I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/367 "2014-11-23T18:52:02Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > And frankly, from what I’ve seen and heard, Cosby has been afforded quite a remarkable degree of benefit-of-doubt, going back years. Many people have spoken of their resistance to the idea, the conflict with the feelings they had of the man from his acting and his voice in the public sphere. I think most who now think of Cosby as a sexual abuser came to their conclusion reluctantly, and often with considerable anguish. > > Indeed, that is probably an element of the story’s fire. We are come to despise him not just for what he did to these women (in which he is not unique), but for betraying the respect and affection we gave him, thinking he was the good man he portrayed. Indeed, the takedown of what so many of us saw as one of the few great positive role models – celebrating education, family, service, work ethic, and denouncing the “thug” lifestyle – is one bitter, bitter pill to swallow. Thus what I earlier called the “say it ain’t so, Joe” reaction and then the proverbial phases of denial, anger, bargaining, etc. And one can imagine how among those who come to think: “He fooled us for all this time! We BELIEVED in him!” many would be enraged. And want to proclaim it loud and wide so as many eyes are opened as possible. And look upon defensive statements as a continuation of the betrayal. In the case of those who fire back with enabling excuses, rather than real arguments, it is legitimate to call them out on it (but not to seek to silence them). OTOH there are people out there who just have not yet got over the tipping point or gotten to the acceptance stage; and others who **honestly** believe that when it comes to this it takes an elevated standard of proof. They do not deserve to all equally become joint targets in the anger. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/368 "2014-11-23T19:12:07Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The evidence is solid enough for reasonable certainty. I remember lots of people saying that about the McMarten’s as well. Solid _enough_. _Reasonable_ certainty. You know, if he is guilty of these crimes (entirely possible), then I think he should have been put in prison as well. Sadly, not only did anyone not report it, which would have reduced the number of victims greatly, but many stayed involved in his life and took his money, rather than doing something to stop him at a time when they could have. There is no certainty that comes from decades old accusations, only speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/369 "2014-11-23T19:14:20Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You think having one’s face associated with all this is going to help anyone land a role? > > Doubtful. You think any are getting paid for all these television appearances? Very likely. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/370 "2014-11-23T19:16:46Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > I remember lots of people saying that about the McMarten’s as well. > > Solid _enough_. > > _Reasonable_ certainty. It’s hard to say what it was reasonable to think about that case at the time, as a reader of the news (as opposed to an insider–to insiders it should have been obviously false). I don’t know how the stuff was reported. I don’t know what readers of the news were actually reading at the time. But just the fact of people saying it’s reasonable to be certain about something doesn’t make it reasonable to be certain about something. I’m not telling you to be certain about something because I say it’s reasonably certain. I’m drawing your attention to the fact that the information we do have does make it reasonably certain that Cosby is a rapist. > [@](#): > > You know, if he is guilty of these crimes (entirely possible), then I think he should have been put in prison as well. Of course you do, and to be honest, it’s really strange that you (and many others) think there’s any special need to affirm this. > [@](#): > > Sadly, not only did anyone not report it, which would have reduced the number of victims greatly, but many stayed involved in his life and took his money, rather than doing something to stop him at a time when they could have. These statements are utterly irrelevant to anything important here. That women continued to work with him and “took his money” does not lower the probability that he raped them _at all_ because this is known behavior that known rape victims engage in every day. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/371 "2014-11-23T19:38:14Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > I remember lots of people saying that about the McMarten’s as well. > > Solid _enough_. > > _Reasonable_ certainty. The McMartens were accused by children, after much coaching from adults. Do you think the same thing is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/372 "2014-11-23T20:25:16Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > Another poster mentioned having been falsely accused of a crime. I was as well when I was a teenager many years ago. It cost my family a lot of money that we didn’t have to defend me against these charges.Thankfully, they were thrown out the minute we got to court. There were a number of people at the time that were convinced I had done this, despite the fact that the accuser was lying through his teeth, simply because of what they had “heard” from others. I’m actually going through this right now, and my nightmarish experiences have shaped the lens through which I’ve been reading this thread and following the Cosby story in general, though in a very different way. My extremely crazy ex girlfriend, stalked and harassed me for months, hacked all of my internet accounts and created some completely fabricated stories to tell the police and various authorities resulting in 2 criminal cases against me. One’s been resolved, the other is ongoing. This experience enhances my (already existing) empathy for the rape _victims_. Now to be clear, I’m in no way equating what’s happening with me with that of being a victim of rape, outside of one aspect - taking legal action against her. I know full well all the evil shit she did but the thought of trying to argue it all in court, having her lawyer coldly and skillfully find ways to establish doubt in my claims while she sits there… heck, even having to be in the same room as her disgusts me. Most likely result is nothing happens, and even in the best case scenario I have little to gain. I don’t wanna relive this whole affair, I just wanna forget it and move on. It’s very easy for me to understand why rape victims would not want to come forward and confront their rapists in an unpleasant, likely futile legal case. It’s not easy for me to understand why so many women with absolutely nothing to gain would come forward now with fabricated stories against this one man for no reason. On the other hand I can imagine, if years done the line suddenly a few people come forward and reveal that my ex did the same thing to them, enthusiastically wanting to tell my story too. It would likely feel very good just to feel like I was being heard. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/373 "2014-11-23T20:26:11Z")
A long time NBC employee discusses his work as Cosby’s fixer. > **[EXCLUSIVE: Ex-NBC employee Frank Scotti claims Bill Cosby paid off women,...](https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/bill-cosby-paid-women-ex-nbc-employee-article-1.2020464)** > > The 90-year-old Scotti said he decided to speak as the drumbeat of sexual abuse allegations against Cosby, 77, grew steadily louder. Interesting story and it sheds light on how celebrities hook up with women. It seems likely that these were consensual relationships. This gentlemen seems well intentioned but he doesn’t know the circumstances of what happened. Scoring with a parade of ladies is tacky and sordid. It’s not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/374 "2014-11-23T20:32:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems likely that these were consensual relationships. WTF man. There is nothing in the article that makes it more probable the women who have come forward weren’t raped. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/375 "2014-11-23T20:34:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > WTF man. There is nothing in the article that makes it more probable the women who have come forward weren’t raped. The sheer numbers of women the ex NBC fixer references indicates its likely consensual. Nobody could rape that many people without some of them going to the cops. The NBC guy said several of these women saw Cosby multiple times. He even got an apartment for one of Cosby’s regulars. I guess the press will continue digging up dirt on Cosby. I love this one lady’s response to these vultures. > [@](#): > > A second woman said “Dr. Cosby” sent her money to help cover expenses for her son to attend private school. The receipts showed her receiving four money orders in one day worth $3,500. > > “Your source could have asked me, instead of leading you on a witch hunt,” the woman texted The News. “Not that any of this is your business.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/376 "2014-11-23T20:43:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The sheer numbers of women the ex NBC fixer references indicates its likely consensual. Nobody could rape that many people without some of them going to the cops. This has got to be one of the stupidest things I have read. No number of consensual liaisons has any bearing at all regarding the likelihood of non-consensual ones. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/377 "2014-11-23T20:58:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The sheer numbers of women the ex NBC fixer references indicates its likely consensual. Nobody could rape that many people without some of them going to the cops. Nobody has suggested that every woman Cosby met with in this way was raped. (Or even that _any_ of them were raped, really. I don’t know if any of the women being discussed in this story are any of the accusers. Do you?) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/378 "2014-11-23T21:30:22Z")
At least one headline I saw proclaimed the NBC fixer “paid them off”, making it look like he was buying their post-rape silence when in reality he was apparently just giving money to willing paramours. Perhaps **aceplace57** saw such a dishonestly phrased headline himself. [Cite](http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/bill-cosby-paid-women-ex-nbc-employee-article-1.2020464) ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/379 "2014-11-23T22:17:29Z")
Jesus. A confession from Cosby himself wouldn’t be enough. All women are undoubtedly evil temptresses, hell bent on the false, wanton destruction of any penis in their path. Dope misogynists, keep on doing what you do. At least you’re consistent if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/380 "2014-11-23T22:19:54Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > All women are undoubtedly evil temptresses WTF? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=20)