# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/421 "2014-11-24T23:54:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If my daughter were still of an age where I were able to allow her to do things, I’d allow her near Bill Cosby long before I’d allow her near Bill Clinton. > > Assuming a relationship were to develop, with Cosby at least she’d get encouragement to earn good grades and perhaps a financial bonus for doing so. She might get her college education paid for and she might even get significant financial help even twenty years on should she find herself in dire financial straights despite the fact she hadn’t seen him in years and years. Wait. Wait. You’re admitting that you’d whore out your daughter? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/422 "2014-11-25T01:10:22Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > What doesn’t jive with me is that many of the women kept coming back for more. IOW, they didn’t seem all that traumatized by it. These aren’t children who have no recourse. These are adult women who say that they felt violated, but then continued to associate with Cosby, continued to be work for him, continued to be carry on flirtations and affairs with him, and in many cases, returned years later to ask him for money. THAT’s troubling to me. (More than one woman reported that Cosby paid them money and asked them to use the money to further their education. Very odd behavior for a rapist.) I seems weird to me, too, but then I remind myself that real world relationships are complicated. I don’t find it hard to believe that there were some “I got carried away, baby.” “That won’t happen again.” “I thought you liked it - I thought you liked _me_?!” moments. Y’know, \*date \*rape stuff. Not violent stranger rape stuff, but the kind of abusive \*relationship \* rape where you swear to yourself in the mirror that you’ll never let your guard down again, but he did promise to look at your screenplay over dinner, and dammit, you’ve got to have his help if you’re going to get anywhere in this filthy town. But hell NO you’re not fucking him again…he swore he wouldn’t fuck you again…and then you wake up with a fuzzy head and no underwear again. And goddammit, you really \*trusted \*him, but you’ve always been something of an idiot about men, so you don’t tell anyone, because…well, they’re going to say you were asking for it. Secretly, you kind of believe it is your fault, because this wasn’t the first time. But he _promised_… Real life sexual assault is rarely so cut and dried as a stranger in the bushes with a gun, where one person is unequivocally looking for a very specific “relationship” and the other isn’t looking for any relationship at all. A lot of real life rape happens when the rapist is looking for sex, and the victim looking for some other kind of relationship. Get out of this stranger rape story and think about it as happening between people you know, especially young women you know, and it makes a whole lot more sense that they “kept coming back for more.” They weren’t coming back for _sex_, they were coming back for friendship, or mentorship. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/423 "2014-11-25T01:26:15Z")
Let me see if I have this straight. SA feels that Cosby is a “world-class womanizer” who freely uses his power to get women. He sleeps around with dozens of women, engages in recreational drug use for them and often throws them to the curb for the next fresh thing when he is done with them. If they then come back asking for money later in his life, he then supplies what they ask for. At the same time, he holds himself up as a dedicated, faithful, child-friendly, non-cursing family man, who should be a role model for young black men. Is he a rapist? Possibly. Is he guilty of sexual assault? Probably. Does he deserve to be in jail based on the accusations so far? Definitely not without a trial and he should not be tried for any case where the statute of limitations has already run out. Does he deserve to have his reputation ruined and his career destroyed by these accusations? Absolutely. I don’t see anybody here arguing that he didn’t build his reputation on a framework of lies and any career built upon that reputation deserved to be destroyed. Even SA agrees with me that he is not the man he pretended to be in order to earn fame and money and now that the truth is out, the public is well within its rights to deny him these, regardless of whether or not he is legally or even factually guilty of the specific crime of rape. (FWIW-I don’t see how any of the charges of rape could be proven in a court of law, given the women’s hazy recollections and the confounding condition of alcohol and drugs. However, there are a heck of a lot of women who did not get raped who can attest to the fact that he was pretty damn sleazy). ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/424 "2014-11-25T01:35:35Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Let me see if I have this straight. SA feels that Cosby is a “world-class womanizer” who freely uses his power to get women. He sleeps around with dozens of women, engages in recreational drug use for them and often throws them to the curb for the next fresh thing when he is done with them. If they then come back asking for money later in his life, he then supplies what they ask for. At the same time, he holds himself up as a dedicated, faithful, child-friendly, non-cursing family man, who should be a role model for young black men. > > Is he a rapist? Possibly. > Is he guilty of sexual assault? Probably. > Does he deserve to be in jail based on the accusations so far? Definitely not without a trial and he should not be tried for any case where the statute of limitations has already run out. > Does he deserve to have his reputation ruined and his career destroyed by these accusations? Absolutely. I don’t see anybody here arguing that he didn’t build his reputation on a framework of lies and any career built upon that reputation deserved to be destroyed. Even SA agrees with me that he is not the man he pretended to be in order to earn fame and money and now that the truth is out, the public is well within its rights to deny him these, regardless of whether or not he is legally or even factually guilty of the specific crime of rape. (FWIW-I don’t see how any of the charges of rape could be proven in a court of law, given the women’s hazy recollections and the confounding condition of alcohol and drugs. However, there are a heck of a lot of women who did not get raped who can attest to the fact that he was pretty damn sleazy). I remember the first time I had the idea that Bill Cosby had a skeevy side. In one of the later seasons of The Cosby Show, Denise comes home as a newlywed, and Cliff makes sure to confirm with the guy that Denise was a virgin on her wedding night. Ugh. Yeah, I can certainly believe he doesn’t treat women with respect. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/425 "2014-11-25T03:42:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wait. Wait. You’re admitting that you’d whore out your daughter? Notice that in the recast scenario, the risk is not that the rapist will rape, but that the daughter will succumb to the Word Class Womanizer’s charms and financial prospects – but if she falls for it, she might as well better get something back from it. He just wants such things to be handled the way they were in a more polite time, before all the damn hippie liberals ruined everything. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/426 "2014-11-25T14:42:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I seems weird to me, too, but then I remind myself that real world relationships are complicated. I don’t find it hard to believe that there were some “I got carried away, baby.” “That won’t happen again.” “I thought you liked it - I thought you liked _me_?!” moments. I’ve never heard anyone ever indicate that Cosby ever admitted ANY wrongdoing, or feeling remorseful. In fact, I haven’t read anywhere that any of the women actually confronted Cosby at the time of the incident. Only that they woke up and suspected he’d done something sexual. (And part of the problem with the jury by internet is the total lack of information we all have.) The payola is a possible indicator of guilt, but could also be explained away as the actions of a rich man with a soft spot for a former employee and/or lover. Especially since Cosby reportedly told the women to earmark the money to fund their education. So flipping bizarre. So while I do think that there were some definite shenanigans going on, possibly with drugs, I’m still not entirely convinced it rises to the level of rape. Two major missing links to me are: 1) total lack of physical evidence. Even if they felt pressured to drop it, not one of the 16 (and counting) thought to save their clothes to preserve evidence of a sexual encounter? Even Monica Lewinsky saved the blue dress. 2) Lack of fear by the victims. I’ve never heard any of the woman claim that he threatened them to keep quiet, etc. And several continue to work with him. So, for now, I’m still putting this in the “casting couch” classification. Skeevy, and possibly criminal (if he drugged them and touched them in any sexual way), but not prosecutable because the victims\* voluntarily \*chose not to pursue criminal charges against him. And if you choose not to pursue your perpetrator, then you’ve lost not only his ability to defend himself, but your ability to present your case against him. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/427 "2014-11-25T14:50:57Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > …Even if they felt pressured to drop it, not one of the 16 (and counting) thought to save their clothes to preserve evidence of a sexual encounter? Even Monica Lewinsky saved the blue dress. … Well, we didn’t have the capability to do DNA testing back then, so what would be the point? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/428 "2014-11-25T16:17:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > This comic is extremely relevant: > > [Sexual Harassment Conversations, in Comic Form | Jim C. Hines](http://www.jimchines.com/2013/08/sexual-harassment-conversations-in-comic-form/) > As is this old thread about women being groped and why we don’t report it: > > [Ladies, check in if you've never been groped (unwillingly) - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=699400) > > Bill Cosby’s life being ruined? Ha-fucking-ha. Look at all the defenders in this thread. I wonder if the same men who are defending him would allow their daughters anywhere near him. > > His life is not ruined if I realize what a skeevy man he is. Whether he is a rapist or not, there is too much smoke for me to shrug and say, oh, all them bitches be lyin’. I’ve been groped and harassed and touched and never reported it. > > But, I highly recommend you all look at that comic and then take a real look at your behavior, and then ask yourselves why a woman wouldn’t report real sexual harassment, in the face of all of this. > > Anyway, I just popped in here to thank people that have been supporting me, particularly NotCarlson, faithfool, Bullitt, and others. Thanks guys, for fighting the good fight. I agree, that comic really does sum it up quite brilliantly. It is a shame that this tread went the way it did, but it was probably inevitable. Thanks for starting it anyway. Although it was saddening to learn about the dark side of someone I had such a fond image of, that disillusionment was actually rather educational. And the subsequent tour of Apologeticsville that this thread turned into really helped me to re-appreciate the difficulties that assault victims face in coming forward. I hope society gets around to fixing some of these problems before my kids get too much older. Also a positive part of the thread: [**Moe’s** contribution](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17922532&postcount=372). To suffer a false accusation and yet thereby feel a greater empathy for actual victims of assault is truly admirable. My hat is off to you sir. To all the folks saying we shouldn’t condemn Cosby without sufficient evidence, I will say, _that is a very valid point_. Now, please put it back in the toolbox and stop waving it around like that. It’s not getting the job done and it’s becoming very disconcerting. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/429 "2014-11-25T16:54:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wait. Wait. You’re admitting that you’d whore out your daughter? His nickname for her is “cardboard tube.” ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/430 "2014-11-25T18:10:08Z")
Thing is 50 years from now they will be showing tribute shows to the late, great Bill Cosby. His comedy routines and tv shows will always be on reruns. People will forget any of these other issues. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/431 "2014-11-25T18:43:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Thing is 50 years from now they will be showing tribute shows to the late, great Bill Cosby. His comedy routines and tv shows will always be on reruns. People will forget any of these other issues. True. O.J. Simpson still gets nothing but reverence, and when’s the last time you turned on the TV and they _weren’t_ playing a Fatty Arbuckle movie? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/432 "2014-11-25T18:43:47Z")
Why should Cosby not “be tried in the court of public opinion?”, as some have said. That’s where he made his fortune. Public opinion is why he is showered with awards and honors. He and his agents have created a persona that makes him millions. There is no reason why the rest of us should concern ourselves with protecting that persona or that fortune against allegations of a real person doing bad things to a real person. It’s not like losing in the court of public opinion will cause him to go to jail. He would just lose what he never deserved in the first place (if the allegations are true.) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/433 "2014-11-25T19:02:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, we didn’t have the capability to do DNA testing back then, so what would be the point? The presence of semen would indicate that Cosby did more than tuck them into bed after they passed out. ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/434 "2014-11-25T19:24:10Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > It is a shame that this tread went the way it did, but it was probably inevitable. > Thanks for starting it anyway. > > Although it was saddening to learn about the dark side of someone I had such a fond image of, that disillusionment was actually rather educational. > And the subsequent tour of Apologeticsville that this thread turned into really helped me to re-appreciate the difficulties that assault victims face in coming forward. > > To all the folks saying we shouldn’t condemn Cosby without sufficient evidence, I will say, _that is a very valid point_. > Now, please put it back in the toolbox and stop waving it around like that. > It’s not getting the job done and it’s becoming very disconcerting. Well said. This thread really opened my eyes, in a very sad way. I’ve heard that rapes are very underreported, that the victim is often shamed and blamed, that victims are frequently too intimidated to come forward, and that people often don’t believe them. I’ve heard of all these things, but I naively thought that certainly this can’t happen _that_ much anymore in this modern day and age. Maybe back in the 60s or something, but certainly not today. Just look at many of the responses in this thread. I’ve seen multiple people digging up every excuse they can to defend Bill Cosby, nearly all of them blaming the women. And every time someone suggests Cosby may be guilty, they call it lynching, bringing out the pitchforks, piling on accusations, etc. This thread truly confirms that rape victims are still treated badly today. Lucky for them that more people are taking them seriously this time around in this case. They’re so desperate for this not to be true. I understand that. I was heartbroken over this news. I loved Fat Albert and Picture Pages and Mortimer Ichabod Marker. Oh yeah, and pudding pops. It’s like finding out your favorite uncle had always been Creepy Uncle the whole time. I wish very much that these accusations were not true, but not enough to ignore that 16 women have made more or less the same claim, women who have very little to gain from these claims. You think they’re doing this for attention? I’m sure that many were aware that coming forward would result in more shame and more people blaming them and saying horrible things about them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/435 "2014-11-25T20:09:38Z")
> [@Turpentine](#): > > Oh yeah, and pudding pops. NSFW? When Cosby said he liked pudding, [you know what he meant, right?](http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/C5ImAjU.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/436 "2014-11-25T20:27:39Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Why should Cosby not “be tried in the court of public opinion?”, as some have said. That’s where he made his fortune. Public opinion is why he is showered with awards and honors. He and his agents have created a persona that makes him millions. There is no reason why the rest of us should concern ourselves with protecting that persona or that fortune against allegations of a real person doing bad things to a real person. > > It’s not like losing in the court of public opinion will cause him to go to jail. He would just lose what he never deserved in the first place (if the allegations are true.) This is really my argument, too. We made him what he was and he earned what he has based on a persona that may or may not be reality. I see no difference between that and people using the same judgment call they did before, based on new information. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/437 "2014-11-25T22:21:05Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > It’s not like losing in the court of public opinion will cause him to go to jail. He would just lose what he never deserved in the first place (if the allegations are true.) And if they’re not? You really don’t see that it’s wrong to cause harm to someone based on unsubstantiated bad things said about someone? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/438 "2014-11-25T22:39:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > NSFW? > > When Cosby said he liked pudding, [you know what he meant, right?](http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/C5ImAjU.jpg) Yes! That’s the pudding joke I was hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/439 "2014-11-25T22:51:34Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And if they’re not? You really don’t see that it’s wrong to cause harm to someone based on unsubstantiated bad things said about someone? You keep saying “unsubstantiated” as if it means something specific. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/440 "2014-11-25T22:52:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You really don’t see that it’s wrong to cause harm to someone based on unsubstantiated bad things said about someone? Don’t you mean: You really don’t see that it’s wrong to cause harm to someone based on unsubstantiated bad things said about someone (by a multitude of people with no reason to lie)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=23)