# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/41 "2014-11-19T18:42:05Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I’m having an increasingly difficult time with the “trial by internet” stuff that seems to be happening more and more lately. I understand it - I truly do. The system is far from perfect, and the frustration at seeing people who are (at least seemingly) guilty of serious crimes go unpunished is real and justified. But, man. It just seems like the concept of “innocent until proven guilty in a court of law” seems to be going by the wayside awfully quickly. I used to think a little like that. Of course it isn’t trial by jury though some people do seem to pass judgement on fairly scant ‘evidence’. I also wondered about the passage of time for a long while - why didn’t more people say something back in the day. Then it struck me the internet is probably the reason why this is coming out at all - people like Cosby, and plenty in the UK - were able to manage this before the internet (smaller media, self-interested in keeping stars happy, etc). In an interesting way, the Internet enables what was previously suppressed to be aired. And then people who thought they were alone find each other … Though nothing excuses this, it’s also true to say things were way different, particularly in the 70s and before … ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/42 "2014-11-19T18:44:26Z")
If found even partly true, then Bill Cosby has a couple generations of very disappointed and disgusted fans to answer to. > [@Stuffy](#): > > Weird, I’m only 7 years older and I remember it coming up several times. I can’t find a cite right now, but I recall several women actresses accusing Cosby of impropriety in relation to his 80s shows. I found this, [Vulture.com](http://www.vulture.com/2014/09/timeline-of-the-abuse-charges-against-cosby.html), but don’t know how accurate their reporting is… Just an excerpt: > [@](#): > > January 2004 > According to Constand, she visited Cosby at his Cheltenham, Pennsylvania, home to discuss career advice, and after allegedly (according to a civil lawsuit she would later file) giving her “herbal” pills to ease her anxiety, Cosby “touched her breasts and vaginal area, rubbed his penis against her hand, and digitally penetrated” her. > > January 13, 2005 > Constand, who had since moved near Toronto to study massage therapy, accuses Cosby of “inappropriate touching” — groping her breasts and placing her hand on his genitals — to Canadian authorities. Cosby’s lawyer calls her allegation “utterly preposterous” and "plainly bizarre.” > > January 27, 2005 > ABC News reports that the interaction between Constand and Cosby — who is at this point cooperating with the investigation — might have been consensual. > > February 10, 2005 > Tamara Green, a California lawyer, appears on the Today show and alleges that Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted her in the 1970s. Green tells Matt Lauer that Cosby, who had given her pills to combat a fever, drove her to her apartment and began “… groping me and kissing me and touching me and handling me and … taking off my clothes.” According to Green, Cosby left two $100 bills on her coffee table afterwards. Cosby’s lawyer issues a statement: “Miss Green’s allegations are absolutely false. Mr. Cosby does not know the name Tamara Green or Tamara Lucier [her maiden name], and the incident she describes did not happen. The fact that she may have repeated this story to others is not corroboration.” > > February 17, 2005 > Citing a lack of evidence, the investigating district attorney in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, announces he will not act on Constand’s accusation and bring criminal charges against Cosby. > > March 8, 2005 > Constand files a civil complaint against Cosby. The five-count lawsuit charges Cosby with battery and assault, and asks for at least $150,000 in damages. Thirteen women who allege similar experiences as Constand and Green are mentioned in court papers as Jane Doe witnesses. > > May 2005 > In Constand’s civil lawsuit, she alleges the comedian gave her three blue pills, which he said was herbal medication. Cosby’s lawyers, however, issue a court filing and attempt to clarify that the comedian merely gave Constand one and a half tablets of Benadryl. > > June 2005 > Jane Doe 5 goes public. Beth Ferrier claims she was in a relationship with Cosby in the mid-1980s, one that ended when he allegedly drugged her coffee and Ferrier woke in a car. “My clothes were a mess. My bra was undone. My top was untucked. And I’m sitting there going, ‘Oh my God. Where am I?’ What’s going on? I was so out of it. It was just awful." ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/43 "2014-11-19T18:44:46Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Maybe a “thorough investigative report” would be helpful but that’s not what we’re getting. We’re getting gossip and unproven accusations and unproven denials. Interesting to me is how all the pictures on the internet of the accusers show lovely people and all the pictures of Cosby show an old man who needs a shave. That’s fair, huh? Has The National Enquirer taken over the Internet? Oh, yeah, it has. I hope someone is working on this right now (a thorough investigative report). I would love to have all of the stories/data/anecdotes in one place, with all the witness statements that can be gathered. Stuffy are you 7 years older than me or than TriPolar? > [@Bam Boo Gut](#): > > I’m interested to learn that some people don’t appear to realise Cosby is an actor - not the cutesy doctor he plays on tv. What does this mean, please? I understand actors are also human and have flaws. But not every actor has multiple rape allegations coming out about them. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/44 "2014-11-19T18:47:11Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Me? Because he’s a dickhead. He had quite a notorious past. We don’t know how many lawsuits he’s settled about what. He had a young woman who claimed to be his daughter charged with blackmail after requesting money from him. He’s acknowledged, or at least failed to deny numerous affairs during his marriage. If you told me he promised young women parts on TV and then dumped them after engaging in sex I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised because he’s a rich and powerful man. Now we are left to decide if he went so far as to drug women and rape them with little way of knowing the circumstances surrounding the accusations. I don’t doubt he his capable of these things, it’s only out of fairness that I think he might be treated unfairly here. Celebrities can be targets for such accusations, and the lapse of time between the alleged events and their public discussion makes this all the more so possible. Anyway, I was a fan of his in the 60’s and 70’s. After he transitioned fully into family entertainment I was less of fan, it just wasn’t all that appealing to me. And frankly for a good 20 years now I’ve wished he just disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/45 "2014-11-19T18:52:07Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I hope someone is working on this right now (a thorough investigative report). I would love to have all of the stories/data/anecdotes in one place, with all the witness statements that can be gathered. > > Stuffy are you 7 years older than me or than TriPolar? > . You, I’m 46. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/46 "2014-11-19T18:54:56Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > From an interview with one of the women, she said that she’d gone to two authority figures - her agent and (I think) her therapist. Both callously dismissed her, and she realized that nobody would believe her if she came forward, so she’d have nothing to gain by doing so, and that it might actually hurt her career. If nobody is going to listen to you, what good does it do to speak out?.. If that’s how it happened, I agree with you, I can see why she wouldn’t tell anyone else, and I sympathize with her being in an absolutely horrible position. Do the agent or therapist corroborate her account? Would the therapist even have patient notes of her disclosing this, after all this time? I’m unfamiliar with typical document retention policies for mental healthcare workers. Without other evidence, all we have is her story. And all of the other women coming forward; what is it, fourteen now? I want to believe their stories are independent of each other and I’d hope we would have some corroboration for some of their allegations: friends of theirs willing to testify they were told around the time, client notes from a legal consultation, police employees agreeing she discussed the matter with them. We get two or three separate stories, with corroborating evidence that the stories were recorded or told without knowledge of other womens’ allegations of Cosby’s behavior, and I’ll pass suspicion all the way to damnation of the vile son of a bitch. Edit: thanks for the data, **Fool**. A lot more smoke is building. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/47 "2014-11-19T18:55:57Z")
I challenge you to watch “Bill Cosby: Himself” and not acknowledge that he is a funny rapist, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/48 "2014-11-19T18:59:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I challenge you to watch “Bill Cosby: Himself” and not acknowledge that he is a funny rapist, at least. How is this relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/49 "2014-11-19T19:02:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I’m having an increasingly difficult time with the “trial by internet” stuff that seems to be happening more and more lately. I understand it - I truly do. The system is far from perfect, and the frustration at seeing people who are (at least seemingly) guilty of serious crimes go unpunished is real and justified. But, man. It just seems like the concept of “innocent until proven guilty in a court of law” seems to be going by the wayside awfully quickly. I’m sure there have been times where it’s been a good thing - when people are attacked who deserved it - but it’s completely uncontrollable. Mob justice isn’t a good basis for a society. > > I have no idea if Cosby is guilty or innocent, and I don’t want the responsibility for deciding that to be on my head. I’d like the system to work, and for crimes to be prosecuted and defended according to unbiased legal practices. I understand how far from that ideal we are, but I’m really uncomfortable with the way these things are played out in the public consciousness. This is exactly how I feel whenever something like this comes up. It seems like everyone is guilty in the public consciousness as soon as someone makes an accusation these days. The only way I’ll get involved in determining someone’s guilt or innocence is if I’m on their jury. That’s the way it ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/50 "2014-11-19T19:10:49Z")
I’d heard rumors years ago, but then it just kind of died out. I never watched his show or any of his comedy. I don’t really know what to think, but I don’t believe a word out of Janice Dickinson’s mouth. Her story stinks to high heaven, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/51 "2014-11-19T19:35:29Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I’d heard rumors years ago, but then it just kind of died out. I never watched his show or any of his comedy. > > I don’t really know what to think, but I don’t believe a word out of Janice Dickinson’s mouth. Her story stinks to high heaven, in my opinion. I will say, when Janice came out yesterday (IIRC), I rolled my eyes. That woman is so desperate to be relevant, she is the definition of “Attention Whore.” I couldn’t help but think that her adding her claim into the bunch is going to do more harm than good, presuming the other women are telling the truth. Janice Dickinson would be my top choice to be a spokesperson for Coca-Cola.\* \*If I worked for Pepsi. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/52 "2014-11-19T19:36:47Z")
I really didn’t follow him much past say 1975 or earlier. I liked his early material (especially 200MPH) but the whole TV and ad thing missed me somehow. I’ve heard he could be a real dick to work with but this is up to the level of shock. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/53 "2014-11-19T19:36:47Z")
[2005 SDMB Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=301636) ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/54 "2014-11-19T19:41:02Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > I’m interested to learn that some people don’t appear to realise Cosby is an actor - not the cutesy doctor he plays on tv. His nice guy persona didn’t just come from _The Cosby Show_, he was also on that children’s show way back with the marker that made the noises when he would draw. Some of his earlier comedy was more family oriented, talking about his kids, etc. Even in Eddie Murphy’s _Raw_, Eddie did a skit with a funny Cosby impression implying Cosby called him complaining about Murphy’s vulgarity in his comedic skits. The implication being of course that Cosby was prudish and/or classy. That was back in 1987, I pretty sure _The Cosby Show_ hadn’t reached the zenith of its popularity that early I remember it being an early 90s thing. His Dr. Huxtable character was simply reinforcing what we already thought of him. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/55 "2014-11-19T19:44:22Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > How is this relevant? I am mocking the assumption of his guilt. I know first hand that he is funny. Everything else is rumor and accusation filtered through scandal-mongering media. We’re already reaching the point where liking his work is “wrong.” Until I see more than accusations, he is just a funny guy from TV and movies to me. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/56 "2014-11-19T19:44:41Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [2005 SDMB Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=301636) I skimmed through that old thread briefly. It’s interesting to note that in that case the opinions almost all were pro-Cosby, and the charges were dropped in the end. One of the victims back then also lacked credibility. I don’t really know who Janice Dickinson is. But as has been said, there is a lot more smoke this time. It remains to be seen, I guess, if there is fire or if none of it is real. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/57 "2014-11-19T19:47:48Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > I feel sorry for his wife and five kids. He’s down to 4 kids as his son Ennis was killed awhile ago. Unless you mean Autumn Jackson who claims to be his illegitimate daughter but Cosby denies it. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/58 "2014-11-19T20:20:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering the time period, I don’t think this tells us much. From what I’ve read, reporting a rape in the 70s and 80s was nearly as much of a nightmare as the rape itself. And I am confident that, as a generalization, that is, at best, a _huge_ exaggeration, and a very misleading bit of spin. (Well, either that, or being raped is not nearly as traumatic as I have been led to believe.) I am not saying that reporting it (and, especially having to give evidence) would not have been unpleasant and humiliating, or that there may not have been good good efforts made the process a little less unpleasant and humiliating since then, but most of it is just the inevitable inefficiencies of bureaucracies, and the very real necessity of avoiding possible perversions of justice. Reporting any sort of crime is never likely to be a particularly pleasant or easy experience (as I can testify from having had to report a handful of, non-violent, crimes against myself, a white male). No doubt it all feels much worse if you have recently suffered a violent and humiliating attack. in any case, the 1970s were not the dark ages, and feminism (including fervent advocacy for rape victims) was already a major thing. Sorry, but if anyone wants to get redress for _any_ sort of crime against them, they are going to have to report it, describe it in detail (which may be unpleasant to do), and should expect to be subjected to skeptical questioning. That is not only the way it is, it is very much the way it should be. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/59 "2014-11-19T20:25:58Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Sorry, but if anyone wants to get redress for _any_ sort of crime against them, they are going to have to report it, describe it in detail (which may be unpleasant to do), and should expect to be subjected to skeptical questioning. That is not only the way it is, it is very much the way it should be. Are they asking for redress? It sounds to me like they just want, finally, their story to be told publicly. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/60 "2014-11-19T20:32:48Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > And I am confident that, as a generalization, that is, at best, a _huge_ exaggeration, and a very misleading bit of spin. (Well, either that, or being raped is not nearly as traumatic as I have been led to believe.) I am not saying that reporting it (and, especially having to give evidence) would not have been unpleasant and humiliating, or that there may not have been good good efforts made the process a little less unpleasant and humiliating since then, but most of it is just the inevitable inefficiencies of bureaucracies, and the very real necessity of avoiding possible perversions of justice. Reporting any sort of crime is never likely to be a particularly pleasant or easy experience (as I can testify from having had to report a handful of, non-violent, crimes against myself, a white male). No doubt it all feels much worse if you have recently suffered a violent and humiliating attack. in any case, the 1970s were not the dark ages, and feminism (including fervent advocacy for rape victims) was already a major thing. > > Sorry, but if anyone wants to get redress for _any_ sort of crime against them, they are going to have to report it, describe it in detail (which may be unpleasant to do), and should expect to be subjected to skeptical questioning. That is not only the way it is, it is very much the way it should be. I don’t think the time period was as big a factor as Cosby’s popularity and industry power was. Reporting would have ended the careers of these young women no matter what the outcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=4)