# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/722 "2015-01-09T17:58:43Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I thought the joke was great. Show of hands: Who’s surprised? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/723 "2015-01-09T19:09:19Z")
I liked the joke because it’s dark humor. But I think he’d make the joke even if he is 100 percent guilty. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/724 "2015-01-09T19:18:37Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I liked the joke because it’s dark humor. But I think he’d make the joke even if he is 100 percent guilty. It strikes me less as humor and more like someone who is just being bitchy because they are being blamed for something. I’ve seen people react with that sort of bitchiness both when they are innocent and when they are guilty. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/725 "2015-01-09T20:57:32Z")
I think it would be interesting to hear the joke as it was performed. I downloaded the Bill Cosby iPhone app, but no video has been posted yet. I’ll search YouTube when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/726 "2015-01-10T02:45:48Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > That is incredibly disgusting. Maybe Cosby wants to be remembered as the funniest rapist ever? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/727 "2015-01-11T06:49:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That said, the holdouts are really starting to puzzle me. What tips the scale from my perspective is that Cosby has always had this reputation among comedians. For current comedians to come out and say, ‘‘Yeah, he has a reputation for this, finally the shit is sticking to him’’ for us to be able to go back 10 or 20 years and find stories and rumors all over the place, long before any of this got so much attention (hell, it’s even been discussed on the Dope), and for at least a few people to come forward and independently corroborate some of the victims’s stories, I’m really just kind of perplexed that people still have reservations about concluding that he probably did what he was accused of doing. > > It just seems irrational. Do you have a cite for your view that Cosby had a reputation among comedians about this issue? I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. [Here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOYyScAU5jQ) of Whoopi Goldberg and Rosie O’Donnell on _The View_. Neither of them claimed to know about this issue. Both are comedians with ties to the comedian community. [Barbara Bowman allegations at the start of this video that Goldberg is discussing.] [Here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqf67eWBcHU) about Chris Rock’s take on the Cosby issue. He says that he hopes that Cosby didn’t do it. He doesn’t say that he knew about his reputation. [Here’s another](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0souWVGo4) of Chris Rock clarifying the Hannibal Buress joke that he did not say that Cosby was a rapist. Chris Rock is a comedian who is a generation away from Cosby. [Here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EaUjUukVfw) of Hannibal Buress, the comedian who made the original joke that started this media storm. He says that he didn’t accuse Cosby of rape. He was just commenting in a joke that a bunch of women did. He also says he’s not a detective and doesn’t have a smoking “cootchie sweater”. He then goes on to add that “it’s messed up, man. It’s very weird times.” He mentions that the media spun his comments. It sounded like he felt the media spun his comments in a way that he didn’t intend. That’s one of the reasons that I feel that these allegations shouldn’t play out in the media the way they are. The allegations of sexual assault were in the news from at least 2005 when the civil lawsuit made national news. That’s the same place Dio saw it when he created the Dope thread you’re probably referring to. There didn’t have to be rumors about this within the comedian community. It’s been public knowledge since accusations made national headlines back to at least 2005. The accusations made then were the same ones that started out this current media storm. As for the independent corroboration, I don’t agree with that either. I think there could be a couple ways to interpret that. I’m fairly sure that doesn’t tip your opinion back the other way, but it might explain why other people are seeming irrational to you. It’s possible that they’re going on different information than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/728 "2015-01-12T21:32:37Z")
32 accusers now — [Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/11/21/bill_cosby_accusers_list_sexual_assault_rape_drugs_feature_in_women_s_stories.html) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/729 "2015-01-13T00:09:18Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgfpoc0NiTQ) SNL’s Kenan Thompson, at 0:20:00: > [@](#): > > I don’t know if a lot of people know - like, I mean I know he’s Mr. Dad and everything, but Cosby’s a fucking pervert, man. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/730 "2015-01-15T14:32:50Z")
Cosby’s on-stage “quip” has prompted Marc Maron to take a public stand because he was “grossed out” by the joke. Marc Maron and Judd Apatow discuss Cosby in the first segment of this episode — [Episode 567 - Jeff Garlin — WTF with Marc Maron Podcast](http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/episode_567_-_jeff_garlin) — > [@Marc Maron](#): > > At what point do we use due process as a rationalization to not engage our own common sense or our own logic or to overcome our own fear of speaking what we believe is true? … People in power are rarely proven guilty, certainly the type of power Cosby has enjoyed his entire life as an entertainer. The money he has made for people in the past has made him untouchable. … Those days are over. … Well, I think he did it! And it’s horrible, but what do we do now? Just let it go? Is that it? … Accusations of 30-some-odd women. Average it out. After some point, he’s a bad guy. It’s true. > [@Judd Apatow](#): > > We’re way beyond the point of, like, “dis this happen?” Or “did this not happen?” It’s just that certain statutes of limitation are allowing him to avoid dealing with this. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/731 "2015-01-15T14:41:11Z")
I mean think about what it means, really, if he did it (which I believe he did). If you can just wait long enough, you can easily drug and rape 30-odd women and get away with it. The most that will ever come back to you is some people not liking you…but people will still come to your show, and still applaud you, and you still have lots and lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/732 "2015-01-15T14:54:07Z")
Apatow said that everyone in the TV biz knew enough to warn women they were close to to stay away from Cosby. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/733 "2015-01-15T16:15:58Z")
It’s a pretty big Fuck You to those audiences paying to see him that he is still behaving this way. What a scum. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/734 "2015-01-15T16:25:53Z")
I don’t know how reputable the Daily Caller is but here’s the latest: [http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/11/exclusive-cosby-accusers-manager-claims-beverly-johnson-and-janice-dickinson-lied/comment-page-2/](http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/11/exclusive-cosby-accusers-manager-claims-beverly-johnson-and-janice-dickinson-lied/comment-page-2/) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/735 "2015-01-15T16:32:18Z")
It’s not reputable. In any case, the former manager’s statement amounts to nothing more than “They didn’t tell me about it.” They did change their stories, they just didn’t tell him the worst parts. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/736 "2015-01-15T18:16:57Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > I don’t know how reputable the Daily Caller is but here’s the latest: > > [http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/11/exclusive-cosby-accusers-manager-claims-beverly-johnson-and-janice-dickinson-lied/comment-page-2/](http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/11/exclusive-cosby-accusers-manager-claims-beverly-johnson-and-janice-dickinson-lied/comment-page-2/) > [@](#): > > She said she had brunch with him and his wife, and it was a great experience. And then on ‘The View’ it flip-flopped,” Gibble said, referring to Johnson’s recent appearance on the daytime television program. > > “It was odd to me that she changed her story. She said [she was] drugged and raped. I just remember that was not the conversation we had. And we had it repeatedly.” That doesn’t sound like “lying” to me. Not telling him about it is not the same as lying. It could be that the brunch did happen and was a pleasant experience. Johnson wouldn’t want to share every sexual detail of her life with him. Plus, he’s a talent manager in a well-connected industry. She wouldn’t tell him for the same reason she wouldn’t tell anyone else–she didn’t want to be blacklisted. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/737 "2015-01-16T12:03:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And how drunk is “too drunk” to make the decision to have sex? > > And why can’t a woman can’t be “too drunk” to escape responsibility for making the decision to rob a bank or beat her kids? > > It seems to me at some point a person has to take at least some responsibility for for the things they do (or that happen to them) should they endeavor to engage in behavior that causes them to take leave of their senses. Because you have to be standing up, moving under your own volition, able to make decisions, say things and do things in order to be able to rob a bank or beat your kids. In the cases where women have been found to be too drunk to consent (like the recent Ched Evans case in the UK) they were too drunk to do anything, really. With Ched Evans, she was being dragged around rather than walking and was by any reasonable standards too drunk to consent. If she’d tried to rob a bank she’d have just collapsed on the threshold of the building before uttering any threats. That said, being drunk could be used as a mitigating factor in both examples you cite, though I suspect being both too drunk to control your actions as well as beating your kids woudn’t actually help you much in family court. You do have to take some responsibiity for your actions while drunk, but your examples are where the drunk person does something wrong, not where something wrong was done to them. The drunk person does not force the other person to have sex with them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/738 "2015-03-06T22:31:25Z")
In a podcast interview, Richard Pryor’s widow calls Bill Cosby “a fucking hypocrite” and “dirty on the inside” who “fucked anything that moved” and a “piece of shit” but that she had not been aware of the rape allegations. > **[Richard Pryor's Widow Jennifer Lee Calls Bill Cosby a 'Piece of Shit'](https://jezebel.com/richard-pryors-widow-jennifer-lee-calls-bill-cosby-a-pi-1687436689)** > > Richard Lee Pryor's widow Jennifer Lee Pryor is joining the chorus of women who've publicly berated Bill Cosby in light of his multiple rape allegations. ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/739 "2015-03-08T16:56:46Z")
I was just thinking the other day how so many celebrities have recently seen their stars fall, sometimes decades after their zeniths in the public eye. I’m not a huge fan of Trial by Internet, nor of Mob Justice. But I _am_ a big fan of the truth. And when the evidence becomes overwhelming, and we’re not talking about hearsay, but words straight from the horses’ mouths, in this case, that of the victims themselves, well, one has to rethink the concept of Trial Without Trial. Just like the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I would be being asked to discredit the accounts of dozens of disparate women who have never communicated with each other in their entire lives, somehow magically conspiring, presumably in some psychic manner, to invent incredibly similar accounts about how they were assaulted by Bill Cosby. Not only would they have had to psychically conspire, but everyone they knew to whom they had told their stories would also have had to join the now-vast conspiracy of hundreds of people, all of whose aim would be the bringing down of Bill Cosby, icon to many black Americans and not a few non-black. So now that we have the conspiracy-against-Bill theory out of the way, what is there to say about the whole affair? Well, as I said, a sort of across-the-board settling of accounts has somehow started, bolstered by the Internet’s way of eliminating some of the distance that celebrities used to have with their audiences. When, in the 1980s, celebrities used to go to Studio 54 and the like, and do things that to any sane person today would seem to stretch the bounds of credulity, it went largely unnoticed by the public, because not too many of us actually bought the National Enquirer or other tabloids, and for very good reasons. But now that mainstream news outlets routinely report on ridiculous plastic surgeries (Uma Thurman) and others of their ilk, no stone is liable to remain unturned. These boards, I would assume (correct me if I’m wrong) are largely North American, so many of you would likely not have heard of someone named Rolf Harris. Well, think Mr. Rogers or Captain Kangaroo for the U.K. When I was growing up, going to boarding school in the UK, he was the kids’ – and adults’ – favorite performer. He was everywhere. He sang, he danced, he painted, he molested. We didn’t find out about the last part until the 2000s, when sone brave soul spoke up. But it turned out that this octogenarian had been molesting _his daughter’s friends._ A bigger scumbag there has never been; he was convicted and sentenced. In a court of law, not in a court of the Internet. Before him, mercifully dead, was another British entertainer named [Jimmy Savile.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile) I myself had never heard of him until he accounts of his misdeeds surfaced, but apparently in his day he was even bigger than Rolf Harris. To bring some issues to the table that may not be known, I’ll draw your attention to the fact that rock stars of the 70s were routinely molesting children of as young as thirteen, [David Bowie and Jimmy Page](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-20121121/jimmy-page-dated-a-14-year-old-girl-while-he-was-in-led-zeppelin-19691231) being the most prominent, although by no means the only perpetrators. Yet they have seemingly gotten away scot free, and no doubt will go to their graves with scarcely a murmur of accountability. But it’s also good that today’s celebrities are not getting away unscathed: witness the tribulations of [Jian Ghomeshi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian_Ghomeshi), perhaps best known for dealing with Billy Bob Thornton during a career-busting radio interview (that would be Billy Bob Thornton’s now-non-career). And then there is the sordid tale of [Stephen Collins.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Collins) I won’t go into that; no doubt many more celbrities will be on the chopping block before the decade is out. The only puzzle is to figure out who will be the next mighty head to roll. Point being, whether or not it’s being tried in the courts or on the Internet, these people, and their victims, are importantly learning that there is no longer any place to hide, that if the information is there, it will come out, even after multiple decades, and they will be brought to justice. Whether or not that justice is appropriate to the “crimes” perpetrated (Brian Williams, Stephen Ambrose) is a matter to be decided by . . . ? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/740 "2015-03-08T20:13:18Z")
> [@Kamakiri](#): > > So now that we have the conspiracy-against-Bill theory out of the way… We do? [Woman makes false claim of sexual assault against police officer. Wanted to ‘help’ other claimants.](http://www.abcnews4.com/story/28272926/woman-charged-with-making-false-claims-against-former-okcpd-officer) [Another woman makes false claim of sexual assault against another police officer. Is proven to be lying. No charges filed.](http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3592956.shtml#.VPqjqUKWTyV) [Woman falsely claims rape by black man. Again no charges filed.](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/woman-raped-slashed-knife-brooklyn-park-saturday-article-1.2140882) And then when you consider: a.) the numerous times it’s been shown on this board that women can and do make false claims of sexual assault (including based upon a desire to support other claimants), and… b.) that a certain number of his accusers clearly went along with what Cosby wanted without uttering a word of protest and are only now claiming to have been assaulted, and… c.) that certain of them maintained an ongoing relationship with him for some time afterward in which they received money, help with schooling, etc., and… d.) that certain of them have been reported by friends to have spoken glowingly of Cosby and their relationship with him prior to doing a 180 and making the claims they’re making now, and… e.) that others lack credibility due to their alleged lack of coming forward because he was the _beloved Bill Cosby_, _America’s dad, etc., etc._, when the alleged incidents took place years before he became famous as Dr. Huxtable and was merely a stand-up comedian and former TV actor at the time, and… f.) that others are stretching credibility to the breaking point in trying to portray his actions as sexual assault (basically, _‘he handed me a drink while I was sitting down and then stood there in front of me’_ :rolleyes: ), and… g.) that there is some question as to whether a drink or drug capable of affecting anyone in the ways some of these women are claiming to have been affected even existed at the time, I think we can dispense with the oft-repeated claim that Cosby is known or proven to have raped or sexually assaulted at least 30 women by now. Frankly, I’d be surprised if more than two or three have a case that warrants even a reasonable suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/741 "2015-05-16T19:37:28Z")
Somebody’s going to bring this up, in the context of the Cosby stuff, as some kind of gotcha. So I’ll be the first, and I’ll pre-emptively reply to the expected gotcha.: [IT WOULD APPEAR](http://defamer.gawker.com/louis-c-k-will-call-you-up-to-talk-about-his-alleged-s-1687820755#) that Louis C.K. is well known in comedy circles for taking his dick out and masturbating in front of women. Gross, but it’s possibly even worse. The article recounts accusations that he has done this while at the same time blocking the involved women from exiting the room. Differences between this and the Cosby case? A few important ones: The specific accusations remain entirely anonymous and second-hand. Louis C.K. demonstrates in the body of his work sensitivity to the very issues involved here, which would make it more surprising if he engages in this kind of behavior. (Of course—witness Jian Ghomeshi.) There are not a bunch of women coming forward (anonymously or otherwise) with these accusations. All we have is second-hand (however if the women involved would disagree that this actually happened, I’d’ve thought they’d explicitly defend him when asked, instead of refusing to talk as this article reports. OTOH there is a lot that goes into a decision to talk to the press whatever one wants to say so this consideration has little weight.) I think the case against Cosby is solid. I think the case against Louis C.K. isn’t solid, but shouldn’t be dismissed. Goddammit. Seriously Louis? You? Goddammit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=38)