# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/61 "2014-11-19T20:35:48Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > One of his comedy albums from 1969 [makes jokes about spiking women’s drinks with “Spanish Fly”](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2014/11/heres_the_1969_bill_cosby_routine_about_wanting_to_drug_womens_drinks.php). Now imprisoned Rolf Harris had jokes about getting young girls drunk (“Madeira M’Dear”) and a whole bit on luring girls into the woods (“Edwardian Melodrama”) on his 1962 “Arctic Club” album but still everyone was shocked when it turned out he really liked assaulting young women. [http://www.discogs.com/Rolf-Harris-At-The-Arctic-Club/release/4555914](http://www.discogs.com/Rolf-Harris-At-The-Arctic-Club/release/4555914) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/62 "2014-11-19T20:38:45Z")
> **[The Rape Accusations Against Bill Cosby Must Not Be Ignored](https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/11/the-cosby-show/382891/)** > > Declining to seriously reckon with the rape allegations against him is reckless. And I was once reckless. TLDR, the rumors have been around for years, some accusers were willing to go on the record, journos didn’t make a big deal of it, ostensibly for lack of proof. Coats faults himself for not going hard with the story even though he admits he was convinced of Cosby’s guilt. In my TV crew days, I never worked with Cosby, but I did work with numerous people who had worked with Cosby. According to them, he had a cold, mean side. The warm, genial father figure was part of Cosby’s personality IRL, but only part. Cos was definitely acting. I did work with Stephen Collins, I saw him every day, several times a day, for over 3 months. The warm genial father figure he portrayed was just Stephen being very good at his job. IRL, he had cold, mean streak and a giant ego. He was smart enough, and self-controlled enough to keep it under wraps most of the time. I actually liked working with him because he was always on time, always ready to work, and never caused any trouble.He handled his business, and as long as you handled yours, you were golden. My speculation is that Cosby got used to banging groupies as an up and coming comedian in the '60’s. He kept doing it even as he aged out of the demo that cute young things find attractive, hence the herbal sleeping pills. I’m sure he told himself that the pills were just something to help these women relax and get in the mood. These women probably presented themselves as sexually available and sexually interested in Cosby. There’s a lot of quid pro quo in Hollywood, and acting as if you might have sex with a man is one of the most effective ways of holding his undivided attention. Not that this in any way justifies rape, but it allows Cosby to tell himself that he’s still a good guy, that these groupies wanted it just like all the other ones back in the old days. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/63 "2014-11-19T20:42:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are they asking for redress? It sounds to me like they just want, finally, their story to be told publicly. Or looking for 15 minutes of fame. They can say anything and the tabloids will eat it up. Or they could be telling the truth, but the truth is they waited too long and their accusations cannot be properly addressed. For all we know they are just still mad that there time on the casting couch didn’t pay off. He said she said. They waited too long to be believeable IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/64 "2014-11-19T20:46:58Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > They waited too long to be believeable IMHO. Some stated that they did tell the authorities and were laughed off, or otherwise dismissed. And many women just want to forget it at first. Rape victims respond in many different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/65 "2014-11-19T20:50:43Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > One of his comedy albums from 1969 [makes jokes about spiking women’s drinks with “Spanish Fly”](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2014/11/heres_the_1969_bill_cosby_routine_about_wanting_to_drug_womens_drinks.php). I listened to the clip. Nothing in that routine about actually spiking women’s drinks. In fact, the routine lampoons the idea. What matters here is that fifteen women have come forward, and a conspiracy involving all of them is highly improbable. They no longer have any means to get money from Cosby, and the statute limitations make any criminal prosecution unlikely. Even if Cosby were to pay these ladies 2 million apiece, he’d still keep the lion’s share of his estimated $400 milion net worth. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/66 "2014-11-19T20:59:28Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > And I am confident that, as a generalization, that is, at best, a _huge_ exaggeration, and a very misleading bit of spin. (Well, either that, or being raped is not nearly as traumatic as I have been led to believe.) I am not saying that reporting it (and, especially having to give evidence) would not have been unpleasant and humiliating, or that there may not have been good good efforts made the process a little less unpleasant and humiliating since then, but most of it is just the inevitable inefficiencies of bureaucracies, and the very real necessity of avoiding possible perversions of justice. Reporting any sort of crime is never likely to be a particularly pleasant or easy experience (as I can testify from having had to report a handful of, non-violent, crimes against myself, a white male). No doubt it all feels much worse if you have recently suffered a violent and humiliating attack. in any case, the 1970s were not the dark ages, and feminism (including fervent advocacy for rape victims) was already a major thing. > > Sorry, but if anyone wants to get redress for _any_ sort of crime against them, they are going to have to report it, describe it in detail (which may be unpleasant to do), and should expect to be subjected to skeptical questioning. That is not only the way it is, it is very much the way it should be. Right, but a rational person might look at the situation and say “Given the horror and trauma that will inevitably accompany reporting this crime, and the relative unlikelyhood of it resulting in justice, _I choose not to attempt to get redress_” Whether or not there is any way around that fact is kind of irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/67 "2014-11-19T21:02:58Z")
I’m 42 and have heard these allegations many times before. He’s paid off at least one woman. We’re just now getting serious about this sort of thing. Prior to quite recently, rich and influential people usually could get away with anything short of killing someone - and sometimes even that, as Edward Kennedy demonstrates. But right now society is very, very unforgiving of sexual assault and is looking to crucify the Bill Cosbys and Jian Ghomeshis of the world. Are the accusations true? I don’t know for sure (and I especially don’t know for sure wrt Janice Dickinson, whose sanity and honesty are highly suspect) but if I was forced to bet $100 on it I’d bet he’s a sexual predator. There have ALWAYS been stories and accusations about Cosby, exponentially more than the typical bullshit a celebrity normally experiences. The matter of why women tend not to report these things is an entire discussion on its own. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/68 "2014-11-19T21:12:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The matter of why women tend not to report these things is an entire discussion on its own. IIRC, one of the women said she didn’t intend on coming forward until Hannibal Buress addressed it [during a stand-up act](http://www.avclub.com/article/hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-rapist-stage-210760). She said that the facts that a) the news was coming from a man; and b) it was someone who had respect in the industry, gave her the courage to speak out about the events. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/69 "2014-11-19T21:13:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Speaking just to this point … > > The statute of limitations is a recognition that the outcome of the legal system is based on fallible human testimony. And on perishable evidence. > > The quality of both those things deteriorates over time. And after enough time passes, the quality is so low that the outcome of any trial would be little more valid than spinning a wheel of fortune. > … > How likely is it that reliable witnesses will produce reliable testimony? > … > In many cases even proving that something happened to the complainant on that particular day would be difficult > … > The saying “Justice delayed is justice denied” applies both ways. Neither victims nor defendants get a good result years later. > … Also, another reason for it is that people change and that a person who committed a crime in 1978 isn’t the same person today. Maybe they’ve changed and aren’t dangerous anymore, in which case sending them through the criminal justice system only serves our own thirst for revenge and not a genuine concern for preventing future crime. If the person is still really-and-truly-o a dangerous perpetrator who needs to be in prison to protect the community, then they have most likely committed a crime more recently for which the evidence (witnesses’ memories, physical evidence, etc.) is much more fresh and reliable. So if Cosby is, in fact, a dangerous rapist who never learned his lesson, we should be able to locate a more recent victim (e.g. maybe from sometime between 2008-today-ish) who can testify with a fresh memory and maybe lead us to grainy security camera footage that hasn’t been sitting in a damp warehouse since the Carter administration. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/70 "2014-11-19T21:15:49Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > This is exactly how I feel whenever something like this comes up. It seems like everyone is guilty in the public consciousness as soon as someone makes an accusation these days. The only way I’ll get involved in determining someone’s guilt or innocence is if I’m on their jury. That’s the way it ought to be. We’re not talking about someone making an accusation. We’re talking about twenty different people making accusations. This doesn’t prove guilt by legal standards. But outside of a court room, we can reasonably conclude the accusations are most likely true. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/71 "2014-11-19T21:36:55Z")
My 2¢ I was 14 when I got Cosby’s first album in 1964. I loved it, got the next three as they were released. Although I still own, listen to, laugh at, and (especially) quote those four records, I lost interest in him in the late 60’s. In the late 70’s, a friend invited my wife and me to watch BC’s latest standup show on VHS or HBO (I don’t remember which). We eagerly sat down, with expectations that turned out to be badly out of date. The topic or theme of the show seemed to be his children, but he wasn’t the warm fuzzy Cos of the 60’s-- we were shocked (not too strong a word) by how angry and bitter he sounded, and how funny he wasn’t. I’ve paid zero attention to him ever since. The accusations don’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/72 "2014-11-19T21:38:13Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Right, but a rational person might look at the situation and say “Given the horror and trauma that will inevitably accompany reporting this crime, and the relative unlikelyhood of it resulting in justice, _I choose not to attempt to get redress_” Whether or not there is any way around that fact is kind of irrelevant. True, but that’s just the unfortunate reality of a justice system with due process, juries, trials, etc. Whether it’s robbery, extortion, assault, etc., a certain amount of legal hassle, stress and trauma is unavoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/73 "2014-11-19T21:55:03Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Or looking for 15 minutes of fame. I’m pretty sure most of the accusers are still Jane Does. So if they’re looking for 15 minutes of fame, they’re doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/74 "2014-11-19T22:27:43Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’m pretty sure most of the accusers are still Jane Does. So if they’re looking for 15 minutes of fame, they’re doing it wrong. So the ones who are anonymous, we are to take them at their word? You see in a court you get to face your accused. But not on the internet. Better to just throw him under the bus least we disrespect the claims of unknown victums. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/75 "2014-11-19T22:31:42Z")
How reassuring. If they come forward publicly, they’re attention whores. If they remain anonymous, they’re unreliable. It is gratifying to see just how many advances women have made in regards to being the victims of sexual assault since the long ago 70s and 80s when these apparently took place. I totally cannot understand why these allegations haven’t been brought sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/76 "2014-11-19T22:33:57Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > So the ones who are anonymous, we are to take them at their word? You see in a court you get to face your accused. But not on the internet. Better to just throw him under the bus least we disrespect the claims of unknown victums. So, initially you objected because they were attention whores, making themselves publicly known, while seeking fame and fortune. Now, because they are anonymous, they are cowardly or not reputable? Is there a situation where the accuser might have _any_ credibility with you? I’m guessing not. ETA: Faithfool beat me to it. Great minds… ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/77 "2014-11-19T23:28:36Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > IIRC, one of the women said she didn’t intend on coming forward until Hannibal Buress addressed it [during a stand-up act](http://www.avclub.com/article/hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-rapist-stage-210760). She said that the facts that a) **the news was coming from a ma** n; and b) it was someone who had respect in the industry, gave her the courage to speak out about the events. That right there (the bolded part) is one of the most disturbing things to me about the whole thing. So rape accusations from women aren’t good enough? They need to come from a man to be taken seriously? Woo-hoo. Grrl power. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/78 "2014-11-19T23:37:10Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > That right there (the bolded part) is one of the most disturbing things to me about the whole thing. So rape accusations from women aren’t good enough? They need to come from a man to be taken seriously? > > Woo-hoo. Grrl power. I completely agree. When I saw the interview and read a few articles about it, it disturbed me. Thing is, I think that the “coming from a woman” part was more in line with when the alleged actions took place, as opposed to modern day. It might seem strange to bring up allegations out of the blue, decades later, without any prompt. As best I can tell, Hannibal was the one who “poked the sleeping bear” with his bit / commentary. Now, it makes me wonder 2 things: 1. Would she have come forward if a female comic made a similar statement and it got some national attention? 2. If another female came forward with recent claims of sexual abuse, would she have spoken up then? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/79 "2014-11-19T23:51:50Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > If found even partly true, then Bill Cosby has a couple generations of very disappointed and disgusted fans to answer to. > > > [@](#): > > > > February 10, 2005 > > Tamara Green, a California lawyer, appears on the Today show and alleges that Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted her in the 1970s. Green tells Matt Lauer that Cosby, who had given her pills to combat a fever, drove her to her apartment and began “… groping me and kissing me and touching me and handling me and … taking off my clothes.” According to Green, Cosby left two $100 bills on her coffee table afterwards. Cosby’s lawyer issues a statement: “Miss Green’s allegations are absolutely false. Mr. Cosby does not know the name Tamara Green or Tamara Lucier [her maiden name], and the incident she describes did not happen. The fact that she may have repeated this story to others is not corroboration.” > > I found this, [Vulture.com](http://www.vulture.com/2014/09/timeline-of-the-abuse-charges-against-cosby.html), but don’t know how accurate their reporting is… > > Just an excerpt: That’s a little weird. There was a suspicious murder, some link to Ex-Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, of a woman named Tamara Greene, which I was reading about 10 minutes ago. Not a lucky name I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/80 "2014-11-19T23:56:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some stated that they did tell the authorities and were laughed off, or otherwise dismissed. And many women just want to forget it at first. Rape victims respond in many different ways. Yes, but were most of these allegations at least documented? I find the wording you use strangely vague. What does it mean “laughed off” or “dismissed”? It’s also interesting that you say rape victims respond in many different ways, yet all police departments had the same dismissive attitudes to rape victims. If rape victims can act differently then so can police departments. I cannot talk about the 1970’s, but certainly by the 80’s many attitudes had changed. I cannot say every police dept was equally understanding towards rape victims, but they were certainly not immediately dismissive. This was not the 1950’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=5)