# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/121 "2014-11-20T06:59:21Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This isn’t one woman making these claims. This isn’t two women. This isn’t three. It’s 14 at the moment. 14. We are not being asked to put him in prison, or to make a compensatory award. We are being asked to consider that this man is not safe to be around if you are a woman. I’ll definitely consider that these allegations could correctly describe history. I won’t be doing business with Dr. Cosby. Well, that just doesn’t matter, yanno? Because people _thinking_ poorly of him, on the Internet no less, amounts to being run out on a rail or something. Heaven forfend, especially on _stale_ allegations. Some Dopers, don’t ever cease to disappoint me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/122 "2014-11-20T07:16:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Then I notice that I wouldn’t be so full of rage if it were only one or two women because there could be doubts and there is a presumption of innocence, and I become disgusted with myself. Why would you be disgusted with yourself? You think you should take for granted that someone is guilty if someone else accuses him? That’s it’s a bad thing to assume innocence until evidences of guilt begins to accumulate? Sure, “I doubt your story about being raped” isn’t nice for a real rape victim, but “I doubt your story about not being a rapist” isn’t nice for a really innocent man, either. It seems to me it’s perfectly normal, and justified, to doubt an isolated accusation and to become less doubtful when there are 15 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/123 "2014-11-20T07:59:57Z")
There’s a lot of smoke against Cosby. The fire is certainly not far away. Is this unfair to Cosby? While the SoL may have run out, and while it may be near impossible to find and produce evidence worthy for trial, this isn’t unfair to Cosby. I hope he loses much (or all!) of his wealth and that his reputation remains marred, such that he loses his popularity. I hope he dies a broken man. What a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/124 "2014-11-20T08:57:46Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Well, that just doesn’t matter, yanno? Because people _thinking_ poorly of him, on the Internet no less, amounts to being run out on a rail or something. Heaven forfend, especially on _stale_ allegations. Well, when someone is a famous person, the public’s thinking poorly of that person affects their livelihood. Cosby now has two shelved projects with NBC and Netflix, and TVLand has pulled reruns of his show. Since Bill Cosby is rich, this probably doesn’t apply so much in this case, but it could happen to anyone, regardless of their wealth. If the allegations are true, then maybe that’s justice. But on the possibility that the allegations aren’t true, I don’t think it’s fair for people to be tried in the media. > [@faithfool](#): > > Some Dopers, don’t ever cease to disappoint me. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/125 "2014-11-20T11:44:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It occurs to me that these women, all young and attractive at the time, were all seeking to benefit in some way through their association with Bill Cosby. It also occurs to me that, after allowing their relationship with him to progress to sex, and afterward not getting the roles/money/relationship/whatever that they hoped to get as a result, they wound up feeling used and resentful. > > It’s also possible that at some point Cosby gave one of these women some Benadryl to combat some flu-like symptoms they were experiencing, as he has claimed. Benadryl really can take the wind out of your sails and make you extremely tired and sleepy, but it certainly doesn’t make you incapable of resisting rape or not remembering what happened after you wake up. > > So, to escape their self-recriminations over their perception of having allowed themselves to be “used” by Cosby, they began to claim (and perhaps even convince themselves) that he drugged them, thereby allowing them to reclaim some of their lost self-esteem. Then, other women who’d found themselves in a similar situation heard about this and began to claim they were drugged and raped also, for similar reasons. > > It’s a fact that at least some of these women had an ongoing relationship with Cosby after the alleged initial rape and continued to meet with and be “raped” by him numerous times over the course of their relationship. > > I also find myself wondering why somebody like Bill Cosby, with all the well-known aphrodisiacs of fame, money and celebrity at his disposal, would have to resort to drugging women and forcing himself on them sexually against their will – and if we are to believe the reports – while many of them were unconscious or at most semi-conscious. Most guys in Cosby’s position would have attractive young women virtually throwing themselves at him everywhere they went. Why risk the chance that he might indeed find himself arrested and brought up on charges? Why risk the chance of an overdose or allergic reaction? Why risk the ire and potential of physical assault or gunfire from these women’s fathers and boyfriends? > > I’m thinking Cosby has probably had sex with hundreds if not a couple thousand young women over the course of his life, and that what we’re hearing about now is from a handful of them who just haven’t been able to get over the way they feel they allowed themselves to be used by him, and now they have a way to say to themselves, “See? I knew it! He’s done this to a lot of women and we were all helpless and so it’s not our fault and we’re not tramps! Right? Right??” > > I could be wrong of course, but these are the reasons I have some doubts as to why America’s Dad may in reality be a decades-long serial rapist. Noooo! Big Pudding got to ya! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/126 "2014-11-20T12:38:25Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > There’s a lot of smoke against Cosby. The fire is certainly not far away. Do you know who _else_ thought that there must be some truth to an oft-repeated story? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/127 "2014-11-20T13:11:16Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > I don’t want to believe this about Bill Cosby, but it does have the ring of truth to it, in my opinion. > > The only way it could be PROVEN of course, would be for damning evidence to magically materialize, or for him to confess, and neither of those seem likely. So it’s unlikely that he’ll answer for these crimes in any court other than that of public opinion. > > Guess it’s better than nothing. > > He’d better hope he’s been wise with his money, because I can’t see him earning very much in show biz from here on out. The fact that he’s signing up to do a new sitcom in his 70s is telling, in my opinion - bringing a sitcom to pilot and then to series is a LOT of work, I don’t care HOW far up the food chain you are. I suspect he’s out of money from paying off women and paying his lawyers to keep his name unsullied. > > AND, I’m inclined to believe Janice Dickinson as well - apparently she included this incident in her autobiography, and was convinced by the legal team to take it out. But the original version does exist - she was telling the exact same version of this several years ago. It’s not like she had mentioned this sort of incident and then thrown a dart at the Who’s Who in Hollywood and pinned it on some random celebrity. It was 1. Bill Cosby 2. she was drugged and 3. did not consent. It’s his M.O. > > I think he’s guilty as hell, and he’s going down. This post made me chuckle. Bill Cosby is worth somewhere between a quarter and a half billion dollars. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/128 "2014-11-20T13:23:52Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Cosby’s doctorate (actually it’s an Ed.D., not a Ph.D.) is a joke. He wasn’t required to attended classes and received course credit for his TV appearances. Sure, but remember he’s been cheating on only one wife for decades. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/129 "2014-11-20T13:34:09Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Well, when someone is a famous person, the public’s thinking poorly of that person affects their livelihood. Cosby now has two shelved projects with NBC and Netflix, and TVLand has pulled reruns of his show. Since Bill Cosby is rich, this probably doesn’t apply so much in this case, but it could happen to anyone, regardless of their wealth. > > If the allegations are true, then maybe that’s justice. But on the possibility that the allegations aren’t true, I don’t think it’s fair for people to be tried in the media. > > Agreed. I might be inclined to feel a bit more sympathetic if (A) Cosby didn’t have more money than Og, (B) there weren’t so many allegations, by so many different women, over so many years, and (C) he hadn’t already paid off one victim in the previously and everything else in the past was falling under the statue of limitations now. Shrug. If I was in his position (shudder), I think I’d let a little internet grousing roll of my back like the get-away-with-it rapist that I’d been for decades. Besides, he’ll bounce back even in the court of some public’s opinion. Look at here. I’m sure there’s a misogyny network somewhere willing to redeem him. Obviously, your mileage various a lot. I’ll be saving my outrage for these women and others like them. Oh, and his wife too. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/130 "2014-11-20T14:00:12Z")
So then, the whole “Fat Albert” thing? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/131 "2014-11-20T14:06:40Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Besides, he’ll bounce back even in the court of some public’s opinion. Look at here. I’m sure there’s a misogyny network somewhere willing to redeem him. Boy, I’m not sure about that. This is a different time. My brother in law is quite literally the biggest Bill Cosby fan I have ever met in my entire life. An actor, and a black man, he regarded Cosby as his role model and a secondary father figure - indeed, he has said it is BECAUSE of Cosby that he chose a career in acting. His attitude towards Bill Cosby is now “to hell with Bill Cosby.” He’s heartbroken but my brother knows what’s right and what’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/132 "2014-11-20T14:39:51Z")
Hard to know. The public is fickle. Woody Allen looked pretty doomed recently too, and there was question over whether his alleged transgressions would sink the Oscar chances of a woman whose crime was only starring in his movie. By now it seems to have completely blown over. People moved on to the next outrage. I realize no two situations are exactly the same, but in general, public mood now is a very poor indicator of public mood a year from now. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/133 "2014-11-20T14:45:23Z")
This thread has delved back into the old misogyny and women hating that the Dope is so good for. Already we have decided that the women who speak are whores, the woman who don’t speak are unreliable, that women casually throw around accusations of rape, that 14 different women thought it would be a good idea to do so despite no chance of monetary gain. So. I’m going to say a few things then I’m going to bow out. The level of misogyny on the Dope really depresses me and makes me not want to be here, so I don’t intend to keep reading what upsets me. 1. I have no doubt that some women falsely report rape. No doubt at all. However, reporting a rape to the police isn’t exactly a simple process. Here are the steps: a) Report to the police. Tell strangers just like you guys - some who believe, some who doubt you, and some who think you are lying, the intimate details of what happened. Listen to them say “If you \_\_\_, why didn’t you \_\_\_\_?” This also means getting your name on a police file. No, it’s not part of public record. Yes, it does mean your name is forever in their files. b) Get the medical exam. This is obviously intrusive and intimate. c) Hope they catch someone. 2. Don’t forget if you were underage drinking or committing some other crime into the bargain your credibility goes down. If you were out in the bars at night your credibility goes down. If you have sex a lot your credibility goes down. If you were voluntarily hanging out with your rapist your credibility goes down. hen there’s what the cops think. Here’s a great article on Slate: “What cops are really thinking when a woman claims she was raped.” [How cops respond to rape: A new study of officers at one police department.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/11/18/how_cops_respond_to_rape_a_new_study_of_officers_at_one_police_department.html) It’s worthy of a read, but here are some salient points: > [@](#): > > In further interviews with the officers, Venema found that cops often raised “serious questions” about rape reports that could very well be legitimate. If the alleged victim has a potential ulterior motive for claiming she was raped—like covering up for cheating, getting pregnant, or coming home late—she raised cops’ suspicions. Victims who failed to strike the correct emotional balance also risked not being believed. > [@](#): > > And women who report to the police without obvious signs of injury—“their clothing is ripped or bite marks, scratches”—are out of luck. Without signs of physical violence, “you gotta think about the burden of proof we have which is beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s not gonna be there,” one officer said. Small sample but I have no problem believing this is how cops think. It’s just a fact of life. 1. Now comments have been raised about women sleeping around to get better positions. First of all, I would like to submit that for all of the nasty comments that are directed to women sleeping their way upwards, I hardly ever hear nastiness about the men that are allowing this. Keep your dick in your pants and this won’t happen. All of this stuff being said, let’s think about the women in the allegations. So you are trying to be someone in showbiz. The great Cos pays attention to you, charms you, woos you. Whether you are trying to raise up in the business or not, you may be charmed. You may even go to bed with him. You wake up in the morning and you’ve been raped, you think. You were drugged so you aren’t entirely sure. There is little to no physical evidence. Cosby has the reputation he does and you have the reputation of exactly nobody. You consider going to the cops to report it…but it is going to be a he-said she-said situation and you know everyone is going to believe Cosby. You are humiliated and miserable but the physical wounds, if there are any, will heal. It is not remotely a surprise to me that women would elect to gather the shreds of their dignity about them and not bother reporting it. Not even a little bit. 1. The last thing I want to say is I laugh at people who think because Cosby has wealth he shouldn’t need to drug women and rape them. Power corrupts, are you so freakin naive? It’s the same thing people say about handsome frat boys - they’re so goodlooking, they can get any girl they want, they would never rape. Of course they would! It is decidedly different to rape a girl, I’m sure, then it is to try and woo her and convince her, and I’m sure there’s a whole ego trip to it. Did Cosby rape those women? I’m leaning heavily on the side of yes. I completely believe how hard it is to get anyone to believe you when you say “Bill Cosby raped me”, and how the court of public opinion is leaning towards him. He had the means, he had the access, and he had the power. I just don’t believe 14 separate women decided simultaneously to ruin him, and it’s nothing we haven’t seen before with hundreds of different powerful men. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/134 "2014-11-20T14:46:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hard to know. The public is fickle. > > Woody Allen looked pretty doomed recently too, and there was question over whether his alleged transgressions would sink the Oscar chances of a woman whose crime was only starring in his movie. By now it seems to have completely blown over. People moved on to the next outrage. > > I realize no two situations are exactly the same, but in general, public mood now is a very poor indicator of public mood a year from now. That is how the public behaves, and it favors Cosby in the long run. In this case we don’t know what happened, and unless he admits something we’ll never really know, so in time the public will remember there were unproven allegations, and how much they loved Dr. Huxtable. Again, this is a problem with the press. The talking heads should be apologizing to these women, to Bill Cosby, and to us for their practice of muckraking and scandal-mongering, and the selective way they do it based on which side their bread is buttered on. I won’t miss Cosby, nor long for him, nor welcome his eventual return anyway, it’s all just another open sore on the body public. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/135 "2014-11-20T14:57:34Z")
Roman Polanski has his defenders when there is no question of his guilt. In the fullness of time, Cosby will have his defenders too. All that is required is for the mob to find some new outrage to titillate them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/136 "2014-11-20T15:02:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So then, the whole “Fat Albert” thing? You’re thinking Mushmouth was drugged? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/137 "2014-11-20T15:06:35Z")
It would put the cartoon series in a whole different light if it turned out that “Fat Albert” is what he calls his private parts. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/138 "2014-11-20T15:24:54Z")
If true (as seems very likely), this is sad. I grew up on Cosby. We had “Wonderful” on LP, and I would listen to it constantly. Watching the Cosby Show was a family event for us. I know it’s silly to expect an entertainer to be the same as their stage persona, but it’s those personas like Dr. Huxtable that we often come to admire as the good husband/father/friend, and we want to believe that they are real; that the performer is the character. It’s disappointing to learn that it ain’t so. But what’s sadder is that more than a dozen women have had to wait so long for people to start taking their accusations seriously. The 2006 article linked to by \*\*Dorjän \*\*in post #5 was chilling. A real eye-opener. Thanks for posting it, **Dorjän**. > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Or looking for 15 minutes of fame. They can say anything and the tabloids will eat it up. Or they could be telling the truth, but the truth is they waited too long and their accusations cannot be properly addressed. For all we know they are just still mad that there time on the casting couch didn’t pay off. He said she said. They waited too long to be believeable IMHO. > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > So the ones who are anonymous, we are to take them at their word? You see in a court you get to face your accused. But not on the internet. Better to just throw him under the bus least we disrespect the claims of unknown victums. Wow! Those devious, attention-whoring, anonymous, money-grubbing, dillydallying bitches! They’re the worst, hey!? (Seriously, “the _casting couch_”!? _Sheesh!_) > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I could be wrong of course . . . I think you very well could be. What perplexes me is why you have invested so much thought into being wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/139 "2014-11-20T15:42:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … > Why do we take such pleasure in creating public heroes and then tear them down? I know, right! Look at how people are speculating about Tracy Morgan faking his brain injury after a horrible car accident. Who knows why people do such things. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/140 "2014-11-20T15:43:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Roman Polanski has his defenders when there is no question of his guilt. In the fullness of time, Cosby will have his defenders too. All that is required is for the mob to find some new outrage to titillate them. Sadly, (for the women these people have assaulted, and for humanity in general), this, I think. There are too many people who don’t want to believe that their idols are bad people. The sins will be excused or glossed over or explained away in time. People will say “let’s remember him as the wonderful man who made us laugh. Let’s not dwell on his human foibles, for what good can come of that?” The \*good \*that can come of not ignoring assault should be self-evident. The harm in this practice of excusing celebrity criminals, if not abandoned, will be felt by numerous victims of assault for generations to come. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=8)