# Can we talk about Bill Cosby? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075 "2014-11-19T15:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/161 "2014-11-20T19:47:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But a lot of it doesn’t. Memories of people, who might have seen you this place or that, for example. > > And you’re also ignoring the other half of the equation - the accuser’s story. If you accused someone of raping you last week, you would be expected to come up with some pretty comprehensive details, in terms of where, when, and so on. If you did, then the accused could look for an alibi. And if you couldn’t, that would be a pretty big weakness in your story. But if you’re accusing someone of raping you 30 years ago, you can’t and won’t be expected to come up with that type of detail. You’ll just say it was some summer day 30 years ago and no one will expect more. Now what’s the accused person going to do? Document where he was every minute for months of time 30 years ago? It’s completely impossible. Absolutely. Which is why it has to be dealt with on a case to case basis, depending on the evidence presented in each. This is also why, the historic allegation that succeed generally are those where there was a contemporary investigation which collected preserved evidence, or where other records, say of a coverup remain. **The Second Stone** there is a reason why professional detachment is emphasised and why lawyers are advised not to make value judgements. If, the allegations against Cosby are true, he is not even the worst scumbag I have dealt with this week, despite all. **Faithfool** , there were multiple [allegations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse#Investigations) spanning several years and continents and were made by both children and parents. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/162 "2014-11-20T20:07:49Z")
Not to derail the argument or anything, but I have a question. When the media says Cosby (or anybody, really) “sexually assaulted” someone, is the term “sexual assault” the same as “rape”? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/163 "2014-11-20T20:08:12Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > **Statute** of limitations not [statue](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Statue_of_Liberty_7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty&h=264&w=191&tbnid=aTSwI0IJ0eBL_M:&zoom=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=115&usg=__g0RrvuGSwYfS_dDRwzxnQHcMUBY=&docid=SeBcd-Bjgbt1TM&itg=1&ved=0CFcQyjc&ei=Jj1uVKrtC4WsogTRn4HYCA). Good point. Our legal system gets crapped on enough without it being made of stone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/164 "2014-11-20T20:09:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Not to derail the argument or anything, but I have a question. > > When the media says Cosby (or anybody, really) “sexually assaulted” someone, is the term “sexual assault” the same as “rape”? The claims are all “sexual assault”, if I understand them correctly, but they’re not all “rape”. Some include groping, probing, etc., while others include full penetrative rape. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/165 "2014-11-20T20:20:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Are there any known instances of women making credible (if unproven, he-said-she-said) accusations of rape and having their careers ruined as a result? Well, aside from the fact that google searches right now are filled to the brim with Bill Cosby results, [I found this article](http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/13/us/military-sexual-assault/), which says: > [@](#): > > They helped paint a picture of the military as a place where victims are often pressured to remain quiet or endure having their reputations and careers tarnished for coming forward. Then there’s one [just for sexual harassment](http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/10-8-14a.cfm): > [@](#): > > CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Daimler Trucks North America, LLC, a Delaware corporation that operates a manufacturing plant in Mt. Holly, N.C., violated federal law by firing a female employee because she complained about sexual harassment, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit filed today. Then we have [this one](http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/7-15-11.cfm): > [@](#): > > The EEOC had charged that Sheboygan Falls, Wis.-based Richardson Industries, Inc., doing business as Richco Structures, violated federal law when it fired employee Morgan Rae Brocker after supervisors allegedly reported to management that another Richco supervisor had sexually harassed Brocker at the company’s Christmas party in December 2005. Of course, how many papers call up rape victims a year later or five years later to ask if they’re doing OK? Obviously, there’s not a lot. It’s not news. And how can you “prove” that someone’s career has been ruined? Maybe they never would have gone on to be successful in that line of work anyway. But I think being fired or otherwise held back from promotions is a pretty good indicator that women can get backlash in their careers if they come forward. And how many women will have the guts to file a suit after they’ve already been fired once for opening their mouths? Not 100% of them, that’s for sure. Those, we’ll never hear about. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/166 "2014-11-20T20:24:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **Faithfool** , there were multiple [allegations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse#Investigations) spanning several years and continents and were made by both children and parents. But they all came from the same school and they all knew each other. Which is not the same at all, because what happened in that situation was that they corroborated their accusations and tailored them to fit a specific narrative. For they were all in cahoots together. Do you really believe that all these women, over all these years, not only knew each other, are dovetailing each other’s stories and they’ve been able to also time travel and go back and change information they gave _at the time_ to now deride some old geezer to _not_ get money from him, yet be castigated for their actions still? What?? ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/167 "2014-11-20T20:42:28Z")
I don’t think you followed all those satanic type and abuse allegations very closely, **faithfool**. It wasn’t just one case, it was several. And a number of people in different states and different cases served serious time for doing nothing. Not saying everything in Wikipedia is true, but you might just look at the variety of cases [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria). It’s very scary how someone’s life can be ruined in an instant by a false accusation, and (relevant here) how one accuser can stimulate others to make similar accusations. Again, not saying this is what’s going on, just saying WE DON’T KNOW what’s true. Not enough information to take sides. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/168 "2014-11-20T20:51:44Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I don’t think you followed all those satanic type and abuse allegations very closely, **faithfool**. It wasn’t just one case, it was several. Yes, look at the > **[McMartin preschool trial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial)** > > The McMartin preschool trial was a day care sexual abuse case in the 1980s, prosecuted by the Los Angeles District Attorney, Ira Reiner. Members of the McMartin family, who operated a preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, were charged with hundreds of acts of sexual abuse of children in their care. Accusations were made in 1983, with arrests and the pretrial investigation taking place from 1984 to 1987 and trials running from 1987 to 1990. The case lasted seven years but resulted in no con Many hysterical allegations. Anyone who had doubts was shouted down. But- they were totally 100% _innocent_ of all charges. Secret tunnels. Flying witches. Being flushed down toilets. NONE of that happened. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/169 "2014-11-20T20:55:38Z")
Yeah, **DrDeth** , I lived in LA then and I can remember looking at Mrs. McMartin on TV and thinking man, she is EVIL. And, I was WRONG. So maybe that’s why I’m in favor of the benefit of the doubt all around now. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/170 "2014-11-20T22:03:56Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > This. At that point any person who allowed their child near Michael Jackson was basically a pimp looking for a payout. And people did. And yeah, I’d want the full prosecution, perp walk, whole nine yards for someone who had assaulted me. > > If I don’t bother with at least filing a police report and go straight for the lawyers and paycheck? I’m pimping myself out via my lawyer. That’s basically all that’s happening. > > I take that back, one of them did file a report with Canadian authorities for an assault she said took place in the US… as part of litigation. Charges were never laid and the payout achieved. She then sued Cosby’s lawyer for describing the case as a “shakedown”. > > That aside, there seems to be no police reports of this behavior _anywhere_. And I find that terrifically odd. I mean, that’s a hellacious coincidence to rape fifteen people and not one of them bothered to dial 911, go to a magistrate or talk to a cop. > > It just seems statistically unlikely to me. > > Regards, > -Bouncer- Or go to a hospital because someone may have just gotten you pregnant or given you an STD? None of them? Jane Doe 10 came forward today after 38 years and accused Crosby of drugging and raping her. What did she do? She came back and got put up in a penthouse for three weeks because her mom suggested getting some money out of him. Then Bill kicked her out after she claimed she was pregnant. Still she didn’t go to the police after being chained up in a penthouse for three weeks? Oh wait she wasn’t chained up she and kept coming around for 20 years. This is the type of witnesses they had against him in 2006? Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/171 "2014-11-20T22:06:40Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Don’t underestimate the vast amounts of money that a high-end legal team can burn through. There’s also no way of knowing how many other victims we haven’t heard from because they’ve been paid off. > > In my opinion the odds are good that he’s already pinched financially, and will be ruined within a few years - legal problems + no income is a good way to get broke fast, no matter how rich you are. Just stop. It’s painfully obvious that you don’t know anything about what kind of money a legal team can burn through. On top of that you clearly don’t know much about the situation if you think that’s where this is heading. Your opinion on this is worthless. Cosby is super wealthy, and will remain so. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/172 "2014-11-20T22:16:51Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Well, when someone is a famous person, the public’s thinking poorly of that person affects their livelihood. Cosby now has two shelved projects with NBC and Netflix, and TVLand has pulled reruns of his show. Since Bill Cosby is rich, this probably doesn’t apply so much in this case, but it could happen to anyone, regardless of their wealth. > > If the allegations are true, then maybe that’s justice. But on the possibility that the allegations aren’t true, I don’t think it’s fair for people to be tried in the media. > Agreed. So you admit there’s no actual harm to Cosby if we believe these allegations. Yet you want to condemn everyone who believes the allegations. You have empathy not for the women, but for the guy you admit won’t be hurt in any real way. It’s more important to you that some rich guy’s reputation will be fine than to not condemn multiple possible rape victims. That’s the misogyny, and it doesn’t matter whether you are male or female. You still elevate the man who will barely be hurt over multiple women. Even if some of them are lying, you condemn them all because you are worried about some rich old dude who will be fine no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/173 "2014-11-20T22:21:24Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **The Second Stone** there is a reason why professional detachment is emphasised and why lawyers are advised not to make value judgements. If, the allegations against Cosby are true, he is not even the worst scumbag I have dealt with this week, despite all. But professional detachment applies solely to your profession. It is so you can get your job done. That’s it. If a doctor was professionally detached from his beloved wife dying, people would be thinking some crappy things about him, too. Professional detachment does not apply in this case unless you think you might be called upon to defend, prosecute, or judge Mr. Cosby in court. Lawyers applying the ethics of their profession outside that profession is a lot of why lawyers have a reputation for being slimy or immoral. What you are required to do in the court room does not apply in real life. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/174 "2014-11-20T22:29:44Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I don’t think you followed all those satanic type and abuse allegations very closely, **faithfool**. It wasn’t just one case, it was several. And a number of people in different states and different cases served serious time for doing nothing. Not saying everything in Wikipedia is true, but you might just look at the variety of cases [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria). It’s very scary how someone’s life can be ruined in an instant by a false accusation, and (relevant here) how one accuser can stimulate others to make similar accusations. Again, not saying this is what’s going on, just saying WE DON’T KNOW what’s true. Not enough information to take sides. Except that the only similarity in the allegations is that they both occurred long after the fact. The Satanic allegations were against multiple people in different situations. They involved people being hypnotized to recover past trauma. And they involved believing in an organization that hadn’t been proven to exist. They involved a moral panic based on something that doesn’t exist. Rapists are real, unlike Satanic ritual cults. Celebrity rapists are real. The analogy fails. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/175 "2014-11-20T22:31:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yeah, evidence would be a good thing. Witnesses, Police investigations reports. Complaints. > > Otherwise these are old and stale allegations and should be treated the same way. Two out of three of those have already been shown up-thread. A good way to see whether the people “not taking sides” really aren’t taking sides is if they ignore evidence on one side. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/176 "2014-11-20T22:34:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Two out of three of those have already been shown up-thread. A good way to see whether the people “not taking sides” really aren’t taking sides is if they ignore evidence on one side. Where are the criminal complaints listed? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/177 "2014-11-20T22:36:02Z")
I’d like to at least see Cosby’s bottle of pills and a toxicology report that they were found in the alleged victim’s system. Standard evidence in a drugged rape case that is promptly reported to the authorities. Some extremely serious charges are being tossed around without anything substantiating them. [Mod note: This was accidentally posted in another thread and moved to this one manually at 02:35AM GMT+1, which is why it was not a part of the discussion earlier.] ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/178 "2014-11-20T22:44:06Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I don’t think you followed all those satanic type and abuse allegations very closely, **faithfool**. It wasn’t just one case, it was several. And a number of people in different states and different cases served serious time for doing nothing. Not saying everything in Wikipedia is true, but you might just look at the variety of cases [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria). It’s very scary how someone’s life can be ruined in an instant by a false accusation, and (relevant here) how one accuser can stimulate others to make similar accusations. Again, not saying this is what’s going on, just saying WE DON’T KNOW what’s true. Not enough information to take sides. I thought he was talking about just the McMartin case and, as such, they all were feeding off each other. As for the rest, being a fundamentalist at the time, I was aware of the widespread panic that ensued after allegations cropped up all over the place and the resulting convictions. However, I’d contend that in each individual instance, the communities that spawned them, corroborated off each other in those cases. In each instance, I have no doubt that the so-called victims were in collusion with each other, all surrounding certain schools or particular areas. Here, there’s no such issue. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/179 "2014-11-20T23:24:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Bull fucking shit. **Anaamika** made a quite lengthy and well-reasoned post, which you re-posted in full. She has raised a number of reasonable points, as have you. Exactly what part of her post are you calling bullshit? If it’s her suggestion that misogyny is raising its ugly second head in this thread, well I reckon she’s quite justified in making that complaint. > [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Nah, nah, nah, we’re gonna have a good time! Hey, hey, hey! > > Well, somebody had a good time. Not any of these women. > > “Let me show you my fat albert.” Would’ja look at that. Charming ain’t it? ( **BJ2** , I’m assuming other posters have just decided not to dignify this with a response. But to clarify my feelings, that was really rather revolting.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/180 "2014-11-20T23:31:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Cosby has never been a source of any scandal his entire life. Married to the same woman. No drug allegations. Never staggered out of a bar drunk. The guy earned a PHD in education (1976) while pursing acting. He spent his free time studying instead of staggering out of bars like most celebrities. He created Fat Albert as a positive role model for minority kids. He contributes to many charities. This is a whoosh, right? There have been allegations of affairs (at least one admitted), and previous allegations of assault. The degree was a joke. Which means nothing. But it’s not like the guy has been wearing a media halo over the past 20 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075.md?page=10)