# Can "White Nationalists" use the immigration issue to reach the mainstream? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554 "2010-01-11T20:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/61 "2010-01-14T04:33:43Z")
Brain Glutton doesn’t care about black people. > [@](#): > > A comprehensive study of hate crimes in Los Angeles County released by the University of Hawaii in 2000 concluded that while the vast majority of hate crimes nationwide are not committed by members of organized groups, Los Angeles County is a different story. Researchers found that in areas with high concentrations, or “clusters,” of hate crimes, the perpetrators were typically members of Latino street gangs who were purposely targeting blacks… > > According to gang experts and law enforcement agents, a longstanding race war between the Mexican Mafia and the Black Guerilla family, a rival African-American prison gang, has generated such intense racial hatred among Mexican Mafia leaders, or shot callers, that they have issued a “green light” on all blacks. A sort of gang-life fatwah, this amounts to a standing authorization for Latino gang members to prove their mettle by terrorizing or even murdering any blacks sighted in a neighborhood claimed by a gang loyal to the Mexican Mafia. [http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=722](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=722) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/62 "2010-01-14T13:43:25Z")
Yeah, 'cause _that’s_ not a jump. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/63 "2010-01-14T14:00:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How exactly would you quantify this sort of thing? Or, for that matter, gather reliable data with which to quantify it? Okay, so the article you quoted doesn’t contain any fact-based claims. Therefore I don’t see how Democracy Now! and its rather juvenile smears can be taken seriously. Presenting an article that is not based on anything solid, and then, every time you get challenged to present some real data, referring back to a previous set of unsubstantiated allegations isn’t much of a basis for debate. As you probably _don’t_ know. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/64 "2010-01-14T14:42:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Okay, so the article you quoted doesn’t contain any fact-based claims. No, it did not present any **quantified** claims. The Southern Poverty Law Center’s [“Return of the Militias”](http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=392) report is more in the nature of journalism than sociology or polysci. Journalists do not pretend to be social scientists, and it is both unreasonable and irrelevant to hold them to a scientific standard. That does not mean what they write, so far as it goes and based on such observations as journalists can make, is not “fact-based,” or should be discounted. The report in question presents a clear narrative in which American militia and “Patriot” activity peaked in the 1990s, went into a decline after the Oklahoma City bombing, and has been on the rise again – in a somewhat altered, more racialized, form – in the past couple of years. What is implausible about any of that? The [Democracy Now! report](http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/11/white_power_usa_the_rise_of) is, likewise, journalism. As for the [“White Power USA”](http://www.bignoisefilms.com/videowire/106/106) documentary, that’s all vid clips and interviews; you can see it all for yourself and judge it all for yourself. It **does** present some quantified claims in giving estimated numbers for members and supporters of WN organizations, but emphasizes that these might be extremely lowballed; which is perfectly plausible for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/65 "2010-01-14T14:45:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The [Democracy Now! report](http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/11/white_power_usa_the_rise_of) is, likewise, journalism. With slightly more objectivity than noted journalist Bill O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/66 "2010-01-14T14:52:34Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > With slightly more objectivity than noted journalist Bill O’Reilly. Slightly, yes. And much **more** than slightly more respectful of the truth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/67 "2010-01-15T03:29:34Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > BrainGlutton, > > Do you consider Israel’s reasons here to be racist? > > [Jerusalem - Israel to Build $1.5b Fence Along Egypt Border - VINnews](http://www.vosizneias.com/46589/2010/01/10/jerusalem-israel-to-build-1-5b-fence-along-egypt-border) > > What about Tibet not wanting Chinese to overwhelm them? Note the Dalai Lama’s comments emphasising that Han Chinese and Tibetans are racially distinct. Do you consider he’s a racist? > > [The Construction of Racial Identities in China and Japan: Historical and ... - Google Books](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=DsxcvwOq_-0C&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=Dalai+Lama+archeology+shows+distinct+race&source=bl&ots=3PTu0-Trx5&sig=3ljfckm51Z7D7c6uP8Trw1l3L-g&hl=en&ei=KnJOS5WxMpGgkQX0hpWsDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false) Frankly, I’ve always been dubious about nationalism as such, and the above is one of the reasons. Few nations on Earth can claim any “racial purity” anyway – maybe Japan and Iceland and that’s about it – but the temptation to define membership in the national ethnocultural community in “racial” terms is always there. In any case, there’s not much parallel, is there, between America’s situation WRT immigrants from Mexico or anywhere else, and Israel’s WRT the Palestinians, or Tibet’s WRT the Chinese? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/68 "2010-01-15T15:20:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it did not present any **quantified** claims. The Southern Poverty Law Center’s [“Return of the Militias”](http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=392) report is more in the nature of journalism than sociology or polysci. Actually, more along the lines of an opinion piece. I am sure that most people would claim that their opinions are based on facts. Which facts these are, in the case of your Democracy Now! piece, is not clear. > [@](#): > > Journalists do not pretend to be social scientists, and it is both unreasonable and irrelevant to hold them to a scientific standard. That does not mean what they write, so far as it goes and based on such observations as journalists can make, is not “fact-based,” or should be discounted. Okay, then - as I asked before, what facts is this based on, and how do we know they are facts? All we have are allegations from a less-than-objective source, and one which cannot produce any hard evidence that what they claim is true. > [@](#): > > The report in question presents a clear narrative in which American militia and “Patriot” activity peaked in the 1990s, went into a decline after the Oklahoma City bombing, and has been on the rise again – in a somewhat altered, more racialized, form – in the past couple of years. What is implausible about any of that? It is implausible because they are clearly attempting guilt by association, and have no facts to back up what their narrative alleges to be the case. > [@](#): > > The [Democracy Now! report](http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/11/white_power_usa_the_rise_of) is, likewise, journalism. No, it clearly is not. Democracy Now! is a “progressive” advocacy group. This “report” is clearly part of their propaganda (in the technical sense of the term). As such, it behooves the rational person to ask what basis they have for their advocacy, or if this might be what I said earlier it was - a scare tactic to try to smear the other side. > [@](#): > > As for the [“White Power USA”](http://www.bignoisefilms.com/videowire/106/106) documentary, that’s all vid clips and interviews; you can see it all for yourself and judge it all for yourself. It **does** present some quantified claims in giving estimated numbers for members and supporters of WN organizations, but emphasizes that these might be extremely lowballed; which is perfectly plausible for obvious reasons. Sorry, but “estimate” from so obviously non-objective a source as this are not quantified in any realistic sense of the term. The figures could be lowballed. They could also be exaggerated, or simply made up on the spot, as (for instance) Mitch Snyder’s estimate of millions of homeless people in the US was back during the 80s. He had no hard data to back that up, either, and it persists to this day, despite the fact that it was made up out of whole cloth. I am sure Democracy Now! would like to have the same success in their allegations about a rise in white nationalism, or the suggestion that anti-illegal immigration groups are actually closet racists. But I, for one, would like to know if this is anything more than something they made up. Since they don’t seem to have any hard data for any of their allegations, the responsible thing to do is toss it on the heap of “unsubstantiated shit from a political pressure group”. It’s a little surprising what people on a forum dedicated to skeptical thinking will buy, if it reinforces their prejudices. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/69 "2010-01-17T10:35:23Z")
**Shodan** , I have been unable to make the “Return of the Militias” link work for me. You describe it as an opinion piece, but do not point out what opinions are wrong and why. Certainly the Southern Poverty Law Center, the source of the report, has a sterling reputation in their reporting. Only the hate groups themselves offer any argument. The SPLC is about promoting tolerance. That has been their primary goal as long as I have been familiar with them, and that has been over twenty-four years now. I just can’t take your quibble seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/70 "2010-01-17T19:32:37Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Certainly the Southern Poverty Law Center, the source of the report, has a sterling reputation in their reporting. Only the hate groups themselves offer any argument. Ooh, have you ever opened a can **there!** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/71 "2010-01-17T19:38:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it clearly is not. Democracy Now! is a “progressive” advocacy group. Only in the sense that Fox News is a conservative advocacy group. Which does not, by itself, mean the Fox reporters and anchors (as opposed to the commentators and talk-segment hosts) do not deserve the name of “journalists.” I readily concede a mainstream outlet like CNN or MSNBC or NPR or CBS News has and (usually) deserves more credibility than either. But, since the progressive side in America does **not** have its own big-deal mass media outlets, only marginal sources like Democracy Now! and Pacifica Network News and _The Nation,_ giving those sources some play on a board like this one is no more than a necessary and highly inadequate corrective. Another difference is that Democracy Now! generally does not make stuff up, it only shines its light on things otherwise ignored; whereas Fox is famously incompetent and/or dishonest even at simple things like identifying the correct party affiliation of the latest scandal-plagued politician. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/72 "2010-01-18T14:47:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sorry, but “estimate” from so obviously non-objective a source as this are not quantified in any realistic sense of the term. :dubious: Now, waitaminnit. I get your point WRT Democracy Now!, but on what basis are you classifying the makers of the _White Power USA_ documentary as an “obviously non-objective” source? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/73 "2010-01-18T15:47:52Z")
From the Big Noise Films homepage: > [@](#): > > Big Noise Tactical is a collective of media-makers dedicated to circulating beautiful, passionate, revolutionary images. > > We are not filmmakers producing and distributing our work. We are rebels, crystallizing radical community and weaving a network of skin and images, of dreams and bone, of solidarity and connection against the isolation, alienation and cynicism of capitalist decomposition. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/74 "2010-01-18T16:14:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > From the Big Noise Films homepage: > > Regards, > Shodan Satisfactory. I had suspicions you were basing your assessment on the documentary having been broadcast on al-Jazeera. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/75 "2010-03-04T15:09:02Z")
Bumping this thread because [a new Southern Poverty Law Center report](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right) just came out: > [@](#): > > The number of hate groups in America has been going up for years, rising 54% between 2000 and 2008 and driven largely by an angry backlash against non-white immigration and, starting in the last year of that period, the economic meltdown and the climb to power of an African American president. > > According to the latest annual count by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), these groups rose again slightly in 2009 — from 926 in 2008 to 932 last year — despite the demise of a key neo-Nazi group. The American National Socialist Workers Party, which had 35 chapters in 28 states, imploded shortly after the October 2008 arrest of founder Bill White for making threats against his enemies. > > At the same time, the number of what the SPLC designates as “nativist extremist” groups — organizations that go beyond mere advocacy of restrictive immigration policy to actually confront or harass suspected immigrants — jumped from 173 groups in 2008 to 309 last year. Virtually all of these vigilante groups have appeared since the spring of 2005. > > But the most dramatic story by far has been with the antigovernment Patriots. > > \ > > As the movement has exploded, so has the reach of its ideas, aided and abetted by commentators and politicians in the ostensible mainstream. While in the 1990s, the movement got good reviews from a few lawmakers and talk-radio hosts, some of its central ideas today are being plugged by people with far larger audiences like FOX News’ Glenn Beck and U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn). Beck, for instance, re-popularized a key Patriot conspiracy theory — the charge that FEMA is secretly running concentration camps — before finally “debunking” it. > > Last year also experienced levels of cross-pollination between different sectors of the radical right not seen in years. Nativist activists increasingly adopted the ideas of the Patriots; racist rants against Obama and others coursed through the Patriot movement; and conspiracy theories involving the government appeared in all kinds of right-wing venues. A good example is the upcoming Second Amendment March in Washington, D.C. The website promoting the march is topped by a picture of a colonial militiaman, and key supporters include Larry Pratt, a long-time militia enthusiast with connections to white supremacists, and Richard Mack, a conspiracy-mongering former sheriff associated with the Patriot group Oath Keepers. > > What may be most noteworthy about the march, however, is its date — April 19. That is the date of the first shots fired at Lexington in the Revolutionary War. And it is also the anniversary of the fiery end of the government siege in Waco and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Of course, a more useful measure would be a count of the number of **persons** involved rather than the number of **groups;** but that is probably a much harder thing to determine. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/76 "2010-03-04T15:22:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Bumping this thread because [a new Southern Poverty Law Center report](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right) just came out: > > Of course, a more useful measure would be a count of the number of **persons** involved rather than the number of **groups;** but that is probably a much harder thing to determine. Here’s something interesting I just discovered: [American Renaissance is now labelled a terrorist group](http://sailerfraud.blogspot.com/2010/02/american-renaissance-is-terrorist-group.html). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/77 "2010-03-04T15:49:30Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Brain Glutton doesn’t care about black people. > > [http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=722](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=722) Since you’re using an article from the Southern Policy Law Center, do you agree with what they have to say about the [Center for Immigration Studies](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/behind-the-mask)–which you’ve used more than once? > [@](#): > > Although you’d never know it to read its materials, CIS was started in 1985 by a Michigan ophthalmologist named John Tanton — a man known for his racist statements about Latinos, his decades-long flirtation with white nationalists and Holocaust deniers, and his publication of ugly racist materials. CIS’ creation was part of a carefully thought-out strategy aimed at creating a set of complementary institutions to cultivate the nativist cause — groups including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) and NumbersUSA. As is shown in Tanton’s correspondence, lodged in the Bentley Historical Library at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Tanton came up with the idea in the early 1980s for “a small think tank” that would “wage the war of ideas.” _These_ racists use more tasteful methods the obvious brownshirted thugs, of course… ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/78 "2010-03-05T02:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Bumping this thread because a new Southern Poverty Law Center report just came out: This organisation started as a force for good, but has morphed into a bloated organisation seemingly dedicated to shutting down any debate on immigration. > [@](#): > > The Dangers of the Immigration Blacklist > by Stephen Steinlight, April 3, 2009 > > Not long ago, I was leading my normal life as a policy analyst for a Washington think tank. I was writing an op-ed I hoped this paper might publish opposing “Progress by Pesach,” a campaign by Jewish organizations promoting amnesty for illegal immigrants and ending worksite immigration enforcement. I argued that legalizing millions of illegal aliens is to be complicit in overthrowing the rule of law, and increasing immigration at a time when the economy is hemorrhaging jobs displays callous disregard for the most vulnerable among us. > > But I’ve set that aside. The issue pales in comparison to another: A stealth campaign to blacklist dissenters from the goals of “Progress by Pesach,” starting with my think tank, the Center for Immigration Studies, and me personally. The objective is to silence independent thinkers in the American Jewish community who are trying to promote honest debate over our nation’s immigration policy. > > The embodiments of this McCarthyite effort are Gideon Aronoff, President of HIAS, and attack-dog “research” from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). The first shot in the Jewish community was a secret note from HIAS to the editors of Jewish newspapers starting off with “This note is not for publication” in bold letters and warning them against publishing anything opposing the “Progress by Pesach” campaign. An attempt to kill the First Amendment, the murder weapon, appropriately enough, was fitted with a silencer. Several editors – naturally committed to free speech and robust debate – were so appalled they alerted me to the message. > **[No Debate Please, We're Jewish - Jewcy](https://www.jewcy.com/post/no_debate_please_were_jewish_0/)** > > Not long ago, I was leading my normal life as a policy analyst for a Washington think tank. I was writing an op-ed I hoped this paper might publish opposing “Progress by Pesach,” a campaign by Jewish organizations promoting amnesty for illegal... > **[This Post is Not For Publication! - Jewcy](https://www.jewcy.com/post/post_not_publication/)** > > Exclusive: HIAS Resorts to E-Blast McCarthyism The Jewish community’s appropriate position on legal and illegal mass immigration is one of debate, including here at Jewcy. But HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society), which now spends the bulk of its... ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/79 "2010-03-05T15:38:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course, a more useful measure would be a count of the number of **persons** involved rather than the number of **groups;** but that is probably a much harder thing to determine. Meh. In the case of extremist groups, the actual number of groups is less than useless. Apart from anything else, they’re always fracturing into splinter groups when Leader X decides that he does/doesn’t want to rob a bank, or whatever. Plus much of the white supremacist movement has morphed into what they call _leaderless resistance_ - no flags, no insignia, no hierarchy, no shared assets to lose when the SPLC sues the shit out of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554/80 "2010-03-05T16:51:41Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This organisation started as a force for good, but has morphed into a bloated organisation seemingly dedicated to shutting down any debate on immigration. How exactly has it “bloated”? Also, the “Not for Publication” email all that is about is from the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, not the SPLC – apparently it just cites SPLC’s research, apparently regarding the WN nature of three particular anti-immigration groups. Which, on SPLC’s part, has nothing at all to do with “shutting down any debate.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-nationalists-use-the-immigration-issue-to-reach-the-mainstream/524554.md?page=5)