# Can WWF Fans Be Educated?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 24, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217 "2001-10-24T01:37:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/121 "2001-10-26T14:42:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > The sad part is, those networks are a step above wrestling…
>
> HA!!! Arguing-in-bad-faith alarm!!!
>
> Well, seriously, to each his own, I guess.
>
> Ummm… no. Actually, fuck it. You’re just wrong. I suppose that “you’re just wrong” is not much of a point in a debate, but it’s not like you felt the need to provide an explanation to support your assertion that “those networks are a step above wrestling” in the first place. \*\*
Seriously Beeble… what does it tell you when E! and MTV cover topics like wrestling? I’m sure E! surrounded the wrestling special with a show about how Elizabeth Taylor buys her wardrobe and a breaking news report on the next season of Baywatch. Oddly enough I didn’t stop on TLC or Discovery to catch that show.
BP
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### Author:  [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/122 "2001-10-26T15:08:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Big Perm \*
> > \*\*The sad part is, those networks are a step above wrestling… \*\*
>
> OK, but do they provide “some kind of valuable mental entertainment?” (your words.)
> \*\*
I’d like an answer to this, if you don’t mind.
If you feel they do, please explain what it is and why you feel it to be valuable. Thanks.
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### Author:  [@Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaphod_Beeblebrox)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/123 "2001-10-26T15:08:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> what does it tell you when E! and MTV cover topics like wrestling?
That they might be on more-or-less the same level? I’m not arguing against that, I’m reacting to your assertion that these networks are “a step above wrestling.”
> [@](#):
>
> Oddly enough I didn’t stop on TLC or Discovery to catch that show.
Well, TLC doesn’t talk about other TV shows much either. And Discovery… well, unless they were talking about the mating rituals of pro-wrestlers, then I’d have to say that it’s simply not the kind of stuff they talk about. Has Discovery ever discussed the works of Shakespeare?
However, A&E has had plenty of shows about and/or discussing wrestling. Off the top of my head, I can name:
_The Unreal Story Of Professional Wrestling._
_Hitman Hart: Wrestling With Shadows._
_Biography: Mick Foley._
_Biography: Stone Cold Steve Austin._
_Biography: Andre The Giant._
_Biography: Jesse “The Body/The Mind” Ventura._
_Biography: Owen Hart._
Now I’ll grant you this one: A&E is not the most highbrow channel on TV, but it’s definitely hundreds of steps above E! and MTV, wouldn’t you agree? Besides, it IS the network that used to air a little show called _The Straight Dope._
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### Author:  [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/124 "2001-10-26T15:14:45Z")
**Trucido** :rolleyes:
**Big Perm** :rolleyes:
Schmucks!
How gutless to pontificate on the merits of someone else’s entertainment while refusing to elaborate on your “superior” entertainment. One who is so sure and smug in their superiority as you two should have no fear of being exposed.
You both may be “educated”, but you have a lot to **learn**.
I actually am not a fan of WWF wrestling, but I do so dig those Monster Trucks (at least the former outdoor drags). Mostly I just despise pretentiousness.
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/125 "2001-10-26T15:24:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \*
> > \*\*
> >
> > > [@](#):
> > >
> > > \*Originally posted by Big Perm \*
> > > \*\*The sad part is, those networks are a step above wrestling… \*\*
> >
> > OK, but do they provide “some kind of valuable mental entertainment?” (your words.)
> > \*\*
>
> I’d like an answer to this, if you don’t mind.
> If you feel they do, please explain what it is and why you feel it to be valuable. Thanks. \*\*
Honestly mouthbreather, I don’t quite understand the question. ☹
Beeble, yes, I agree with you, A&E is a pretty good station. I honestly don’t watch much television. Of course, it doesn’t take a lot to get above E! and MTV. 🙂
BP
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/126 "2001-10-26T15:29:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hibbins \*
>
> \*\*
> You both may be “educated”, but you have a lot to learn
> \*\*
I’ve never proclaimed otherwise, and I even agree with this.
BP
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### Author:  [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/127 "2001-10-26T15:36:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Big Perm \*
> **How _real_ do YOU think is is Sac?**
:rolleyes:
If I thought it was real, I wouldn’t be talking about “storylines.”
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/128 "2001-10-26T15:45:37Z")
:rolleyes:
Then stop referring to these “storylines” like they are damn masterpieces of literature and wrestling is the medium through which you choose to absorb said masterpiece.
In my opinion anyone who is arguing “for” wrestling, shouldn’t be arguing about how great the stories are. At least take a more respectable angle, like you admire their bodies or attitude or something… (if that’s more respectable I guess)
BP
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### Author:  [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/129 "2001-10-26T15:45:56Z")
Well, Big Perm, I’ll try to explain. You were riding us fans because:
(_all quotes about wrestling from you in this thread_)
> [@](#):
>
> As I matured, I started looking for better ways to entertain myself.
> [@](#):
>
> there is absolutely no mental stimulation whatsoever
> [@](#):
>
> (it isn’t) valuable mental entertainment
I would like to know how you can reconcile your obvious disdain for anything less than highbrow entertainment with your admission to watching a show on E!, and knowing what MTV’s programming schedule is.
Or could it be that maybe, just maybe, :eek: you occasionally like to engage in some forms of mindless entertainment? :eek:
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### Author:  [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/130 "2001-10-26T15:54:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Big Perm \*
> \*\*
> Then stop referring to these “storylines” like they are damn masterpieces of literature and wrestling is the medium through which you choose to absorb said masterpiece._\*
I never said they were masterpieces. Nobody here has. I was objecting to people saying that there is NO shading, NO complexity, NOTHING more than oiled up guys grunting at each other.
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### Author:  [@Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaphod_Beeblebrox)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/131 "2001-10-26T16:08:58Z")
Christ in a hotrod!!!
Do people who watch other TV shows (except soaps) ever have to justify the fact that they like something that is not a work of literary genius? Why the fucking double standard with wrestling?
Is it mindless? Well, at times, it is. So f’n what? Does someone’s liking a mindless show automatically make him an idiot? Shit, I don’t see anyone bitching at the people in Cafe who treat _Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ as if it were a TV version of the long-lost works of James Joyce! Why not? Because there is no fucking point!! People will enjoy what they damn well want to enjoy, without having to deal with the rants of holier-than-thou “whatever you watch is stupid - but I want my MTV” people. Somehow, I guess that wrestling fans don’t get to enjoy that small comfort.
Fuck, this annoys me. What’s next? Do we pick on people who read the occasional best-seller?
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/132 "2001-10-26T16:11:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by mouthbreather \*
> Or could it be that maybe, just maybe, :eek: you occasionally like to engage in some forms of mindless entertainment?_\*
Where did I say that everything that I do is on a _higher_ plane? As a matter of fact, I think I simply said that an educated person should be perfectly able to discover a wide array of entertainment.
My experience with wrestling fans has led me to believe that this is a primary form of entertainment for a lot of people, and not a temporary diversion. Sorry, but I find that sad.
Yes, of course I have temporarily diverted myself in front of a television… we all have. (or nearly all) I don’t see how that supports your argument though.
BP
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### Author:  [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/133 "2001-10-26T16:31:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Big Perm \*
> Where did I say that everything that I do is on a _higher_ plane?
You never came out and said it, but if you look at your quotes above I think you’ll agree I didn’t make a huge leap when I inferred it.
> [@](#):
>
> My experience with wrestling fans has led me to believe that this is a primary form of entertainment for a lot of people, and not a temporary diversion. Sorry, but I find that sad.
And I find it said that you are projecting your experiences from rural Indiana onto everyone else in the USA who happen to share a leisure acivity. I’ve already admitted, more than once, that it is not my life, but it is something I enjoy as a diversion.
> [@](#):
>
> Yes, of course I have temporarily diverted myself in front of a television… we all have.
Good, then I’d apreciate if you wouldn’t assume me a moron for doing what you’ve just admitted to.
Unless, of course, it does depend on what you watch when you divert yourself. And if that is the case, then you really need to make two lists: **Big Perm’s educated TV shows** and **Big Perm’s hillbilly TV shows** – that way, we all know where we stand.
(Actually, I don’t really want a list. I’m making a point that if we are admitting that that we both sometimes use TV for escapism, don’t shit on me for it.)
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/134 "2001-10-26T16:53:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \*
> (Actually, I don’t really want a list. I’m making a point that if we are admitting that that we both sometimes use TV for escapism, don’t shit on me for it.) \*\*
Sorry if you felt I was “shitting” on you… I truly apologize for that. If you use it as a temporary diversion, then more power to you. If “Stone Cold” Steve Austin and pals are your life, then I stand by what I’ve said.
BP
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### Author:  [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/135 "2001-10-26T17:03:22Z")
Cool. I think we have a pretty good feeling for each other’s position, so barring any new discussion, I am done here.
See you around, BP.
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### Author:  [@Big\_Perm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Perm)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/136 "2001-10-26T18:03:19Z")
I’ll give wrestling fans one thing, they defend their honor to the bitter end. 🙂
This was a fun argument for me too, see ya around.
BP
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### Author:  [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/137 "2001-10-26T18:13:24Z")
Ding, ding
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### Author:  [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/138 "2001-10-26T18:27:13Z")
::After the bell, **BP** thinks all is well and walks back up the ramp. **mouthbreather** runs up on BP, shanghai style, and pastes him in the back of the head with a folding chair. He stands over the crumpled body of BP, and flexes. He then makes some derrogatory comments towards women, and orders his racially stereotyped sidekick to know his role, and follow him to the back::
🙂
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### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/139 "2001-10-26T19:02:07Z")
**Twistoffate** , that was addressed to **Capacitor**. If you’ll read his previous two posts, I think you’ll understand.
**Hibbins** , if you’ll go back over my arguments, they attack wrestling on a wide variety of points, the least of which is its “low-brow” image, the most of which is that it openly espouses a pointless and destructive worldview. It would also benefit you to realize that your entertainment can be insipid independent of anything else. Let me repeat again, for those who are still stuck on the “What should I watch?” question. I don’t care that you watch TV. You should, however, realize that the TV you’re watching embodies all the values that a large slice of educated society finds repugnant. Physical strength over reason, all of three emotional responses, screeching demagoguery, objectification, and really, really bad acting. You can have your “low-brow” or pointless entertainment. Hell, I’ll provide you with some. Pointless and low-brow is a damn sight better than what I see in wrestling.
Additionally, I don’t get the focus on TV. Yeah, TV’s fun sometimes, but un-ass the fucking couch and take your entertainment into your own hands sometime.
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### Author:  [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-wwf-fans-be-educated/89217/140 "2001-10-26T19:56:42Z")
**Trucido**
> [@](#):
>
> Hibbins, if you’ll go back over my arguments, they attack wrestling on a wide variety of points, the least of which is its “low-brow” image, the most of which is that it openly espouses a pointless and destructive worldview.
The particular point about wrestling being lowbrow is only a small portion of what I find distasteful in your posts.
Further a lot of entertainment espouses a pointless and/or destructive worldview. That’s why it’s entertainment and not education. Granted the two can be mixed, but often the results are less satisfying.
> [@](#):
>
> It would also benefit you to realize that your entertainment can be insipid independent of anything else….You should, however, realize that the TV you’re watching embodies all the values that a large slice of educated society finds repugnant.
Uhh, I myself don’t watch wrestling. Did you miss that?
In fact I receive very little of my “entertainment” via the tube. You’ve waded in here making broad generalizations and have attempted to rank individuals “education” based upon correlations drawn from shaky data. The only thing you have proven to me is that you can accurately act the pompous ass.
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