# Can you be criminally /civilly liable for causing an accident while trying to beat a train? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 27, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991 "2022-06-27T20:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/1 "2022-06-27T20:20:15Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Breaking News - Amtrak Train Southwest Chief has derailed near Kansas City](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-amtrak-train-southwest-chief-has-derailed-near-kansas-city/966990): > [@Amtrak Train Southwest Chief has derailed near Kansas City: 2022-06-27](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrak-train-southwest-chief-has-derailed-near-kansas-city-2022-06-27/966990/1): > > Early reports indicate that a construction vehicle, likely a dump truck of some sort, tried to beat the train and failed. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/06/27/amtrak-derailment-missouri/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/06/27/amtrak-derailment-missouri/) If local state and fed law enforcement wanted to could whoever drove the truck go to jail and or get sued by amtrak and the passengers for damages? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/2 "2022-06-27T20:26:10Z")
My understanding is yes (at least on the civil side of things). We had a collision in suburban Chicago a couple of months ago, in which a moving truck was blocking the tracks (due, apparently, to a construction-related lane closure, and ensuing traffic jam, on the road). A commuter train struck the truck, and a passenger on the train was ejected and killed in the collision. Last week, the family filed a lawsuit, against both the railroads involved (Metra and BNSF), as well as the moving company which owned the truck, and the driver of the truck. > **[Family of Grandmother Killed in Clarendon Hills Metra Crash Files Wrongful...](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/family-of-grandmother-killed-in-clarendon-hills-metra-crash-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit/2864007/)** > > The family of a woman killed when a train slammed into a truck last month in Clarendon Hills alleges in a lawsuit that Metra should have known of the unsafe conditions that led to the accident. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/3 "2022-06-27T20:35:47Z")
On what grounds can they sue the railroad? I understand why the const ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/4 "2022-06-27T20:36:11Z")
This guy killed 11 people and got jail time. “Stokes was sentenced on September 21, 2004, to two years in prison for logbook, [manslaughter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter), and [hours of service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hours_of_service) violations. At sentencing, [Kankakee County](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kankakee_County,_Illinois) Judge Clark Erickson stated that it was not proven if a lack of rest played a factor in the wreck but that he believed Stokes would have been more able to make safe driving decisions if he had been fully rested.[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Bourbonnais,_Illinois,_train_crash#cite_note-12) Stokes was later found to have had multiple violations that required his attendance of traffic school five times in three different counties, which should have resulted in his license being suspended at the time of the wreck. He died in February 2007 from a [cerebral hemorrhage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_hemorrhage).” [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/NTSB_aerial_view_of_Bourbonnais_grade_crossing_accident.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/NTSB_aerial_view_of_Bourbonnais_grade_crossing_accident.jpg) > **[1999 Bourbonnais, Illinois, train crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Bourbonnais,_Illinois,_train_crash)** > > On March 15, 1999, Amtrak's southbound City of New Orleans passenger train collided with a semi-trailer truck in the village of Bourbonnais, Illinois, United States. Most of the train derailed, killing eleven people. A National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation into the accident attributed the cause to the truck driver trying to beat the train across a grade crossing. The NTSB's recommendations from the accident included increased enforcement of grade crossing signals, the insta... ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/5 "2022-06-27T20:36:50Z")
I just want to point out that just about anyone can sue anyone for anything in the US. Whether you win or not is another story. (The YouTube celebrity Legal Eagle points this out frequently.) ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/6 "2022-06-27T20:47:13Z")
I don’t understand the question. If they could prove that the accident was caused by someone driving recklessly, why would you think that the driver might not be liable? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/7 "2022-06-27T20:48:58Z")
I would have thought that in most countries, you could be held criminally /civilly liable for causing an accident. Step out into the road, cause a car to swerve and kill a newly qualified young doctor and hope that you are well insured. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/8 "2022-06-27T21:18:52Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > On what grounds can they sue the railroad? If you’re talking about the collision I posted about, then, from that article: > [@](#): > > The lawsuit was filed Tuesday by Lopez’s daughter, Josephine Klonowski. It alleges that Metra and BNSF were negligent and should have been aware of construction at the Prospect Avenue crossing that was causing traffic to back up on the tracks. > > According to the suit, other vehicles had been stuck on the tracks at the Prospect Avenue crossing before the collision took place, and there had been other near-misses. > > The lawsuit states that Metra should have warned its conductors to approach the crossing with caution and slow down. Back when I went into the office every day (pre-COVID), I rode on that train line; Metra is the commuter train agency (and, I believe, owns the locomotives and passenger cars), while BNSF owns the rails, and provides the train crews. Trains can run as fast as 70mph on that line, but there are areas where the trains are required to slow down (due, I think, to track conditions). My suspicion is that the plaintiffs are arguing that, due to the road construction, and prior near-misses at that location, the railroads should have instituted a slow zone there. (As @Atamasama notes, they can certainly sue over that; whether or not the lawsuit will be successful is another story.) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/9 "2022-06-28T03:49:19Z")
If the driver mentioned in the OP tried to beat the train to the crossing, that in itself is probably a Vehicle Code violation. More specifically, if the crossing had any operational control device (flashing red lights or gates), they would have been activated while the train was still safely far away. If the vehicle driver tried to cross while those devices were active, there’s a violation right there. ETA: Oh wait a minute. Now I read part of the WaPo article. It says the accident happened at an _uncontrolled_ crossing – no lights or gates. Oops. In California at least, that would probably still be a vehicle code violation. There are specific rules about approaching uncontrolled railroad crossings. – The speed limit within 100 feet of an uncontrolled crossing where you cannot see 400 feet along the tracks in both directions is 15 miles per hour. (Says Senegoid, who just last month spent the whole month studying his ass off for the DMV Knowledge Test to renew his drivers license. And who got 23 of 25 questions correct as a result!) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/10 "2022-06-28T03:55:53Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > More specifically, if the crossing had any operational control device (flashing red lights or gates), they would have been activated while the train was still safely far away. If the vehicle driver tried to cross while those devices were active, there’s a violation right there. News articles are indicating that the grade crossing in today’s accident in Missouri was an “uncontrolled” crossing (no lights, no gates). From the [Kansas City Star](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article262936653.html): > [@](#): > > Updated 7:27 p.m. The train crashed at an “uncontrolled” railroad crossing, meaning no lights or moving barriers to warn the public of the approaching train. “It’s an uncontrolled intersection on a gravel road,” said Missouri State Highway Patrol spokesman Cpl. Justin Dunn in a news conference after the crash. “So no lights, no electronic control devices, things such as that.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/11 "2022-06-28T03:56:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > News articles are indicating that the grade crossing in today’s accident in Missouri was an “uncontrolled” crossing (no lights, no gates). From the [Kansas City Star](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article262936653.html): Yep. See my edit to the above post. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/12 "2022-06-28T03:57:04Z")
Apologies for the simulpost! ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-be-criminally-civilly-liable-for-causing-an-accident-while-trying-to-beat-a-train/966991/13 "2022-06-28T05:09:50Z")
I would imagine that the train is less able to slow down in time, so like ships at sea, it has the right of way. If you cross in front of a moving train and get hit, presumably you have at least failed to yield right of way, with all the criminal and civil liability resulting from the accident and its consequences.