# Can you brake for animals? \[Question about Australian traffic law\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921 "2008-10-28T11:36:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/21 "2008-10-29T01:31:13Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > But at the end of the day the safe following distance is the clincher, irrespective\* of why you slammed on the brakes, the following driver, if they had have been following at the appropiate safe distance would have had suffecient time to stop without hitting you. Sometimes the "sudden emergency doctrine comes into play, at least in some jurisdictions in the US. [Texas Judiciary Online - HTML Opinion](http://www.houston-opinions.com/files/1stCoA-2007-Jordan-v-Sava-Opinion-on-rehearing-by-Keyes-PI-accident-jury-selection-sudden-emergency-instruction.htm) [http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Oct/1/131507.html](http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Oct/1/131507.html) Usually not, though. caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/iowastatecases/app/6-753.pdf [http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/86/86.F3d.1148.95-1341.html](http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/86/86.F3d.1148.95-1341.html) I’ve got no idea how it works in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/22 "2008-10-29T01:44:11Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > I think the problem with that earlier requirement is that most evasive action is taken instinctively. If I see a cat (or even an unexpected plastic bag) moving out onto the road just in front of me, I don’t have time to evaluate whether it would “result in an accident involving me or other human road users”. If it’s front of my car, I will slam on the brakes out of pure instinct; perhaps not long enough to stop the car entirely if I realise it’s just a plastic bag, but certainly enough to slow down considerably. Yeah. I did this, driving at night and speeding, cat runs across the road. Oh Shit! Hit Brakes. Skid. Brain catches up. Shit this isn’t good I’m not gonna crash to save a cat. Release brakes - THUMP THUMP. Dead cat. Moral - your first instinct may be to brake / swerve whatever but it can be corrected before anything more happens. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/23 "2008-10-29T01:49:35Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > In the US if you stop for an animal and are rear ended it is the following driver’s fault. In fact, there are probably no circumstances in which the driver who rear ends the leading car would not be ticketed for following too closely. There are circumstances in which the lead driver would be ticketed as well, but hardly any. > > _nitpick- it’s brake for animals_ I’ve always wondered about this… I follow the “two second rule” quite assiduously on surface roads. The basis of following distance is that the “two seconds” is the time taken to realise something has gone wrong, and move foot to brake. This assumes a few things 1. That your braking distance is the same as the car in front 2. Nothing happens to stop the car in front suddenly. Now lets say that theres a 18" high, two tonne concrete block in the middle of the lane. Car in front sees it, brakes but hits it while travelling at 30mph. Obvioulsy even if I was following at the “legal and appropriate” distance I will still hit him…am I at fault in this instance? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/24 "2008-10-29T02:57:01Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Now lets say that theres a 18" high, two tonne concrete block in the middle of the lane. Car in front sees it, brakes but hits it while travelling at 30mph. Obvioulsy even if I was following at the “legal and appropriate” distance I will still hit him…am I at fault in this instance? Yup. A friend of mine had her car die in the middle of a busy road. Some rear ended her, and someone else rear ended that car. She got a ticket for abandoning her car (not that that matters here), the person that hit her car got a ticket for inattentive driving and the person who hit that person got a ticket for following to close. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/25 "2008-10-29T04:30:42Z")
Usual lawyer disclaimer. I am not your lawyer. You are not my client. This is not legal advice. I just did a quick search of the _Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 (Queensland)_, which is where such rules are likely to be if they are in statutory form and couldn’t find anything specific either way (but of course there are general rules for driving without due care and attention, dangerous driving, etc.) If such a rule exists, I suspect it is a common law rule of thumb making you liable if you swerve into oncoming traffic to avoid a cat. I doubt there can be a general rule about the issue precisely because commonly encountered animals vary in size from Chihuahas to Droughtmasters. Circumstances of avoidance can vary widely too - there is a difference between suddenly braking and swerving into pedestrians or the like. If avoiding the animal would put people or property in danger, good-bye Tiddles. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/26 "2008-10-29T09:08:21Z")
Like **Noel** , I’m a Qld lawyer but this isn’t my field\*. I also adopt his position about me not being your lawyer etc However I agree with what he and others say. I can’t find any relevant law, and I didn’t expect to find one. It would seem highly unjust for you to be liable for someone else rear-ending you if you stop for an animal, because in many circumstances that would be requiring you to have an accident (and potentially a serious accident) for the sake of saving some bozo who is following too closely from having an accident. I don’t believe for a moment that you would be required to “take one for the team” in those circumstances. I suppose if your state of knowledge is such that you knew or should have known that stopping for the animal would or was very likely to cause a rear ender, and you knew or should have known that the animal was too small to cause you any damage, and you had time to assess all this and make a decision, it is not completely inconceivable that you could be regarded as at fault. But these conditions are basically never going to arise. I suspect your partner is confusing the rear end situation with the situation where you swerve to save yourself, and in doing so hit someone totally innocent. That might be different. (Now if we were talking about ships colliding as a result of the leading vessel suddenly going full astern upon sighting a wayward whale, then I’d dive in with both feet.) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/27 "2008-10-29T12:58:01Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Yeah. I did this, driving at night and speeding…Moral - your first instinct may be to brake / swerve whatever but it can be corrected before anything more happens. Moral: Don’t speed :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/28 "2008-10-29T13:33:07Z")
This isn’t directly on point here, but especially for larger animals experts recommend against swerving and braking (at least when you’re going to hit the thing no matter what): > [@](#): > > Upon seeing a deer, immediately slow down. Do not swerve - because this can confuse deer as to where to run. It could also cause you to lose control and hit a tree or another car. > If you can’t avoid the accident, then just hit the deer while maintaining control of your vehicle. Some experts say that if such a collision is inevitable, you should avoid braking at impact so that the deer may pass underneath your car as opposed to hitting the windshield. [http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/boone/safety/critters/deer.shtml](http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/boone/safety/critters/deer.shtml) Also, the US cases tend to distinguish between accidents where a driver brakes suddenly and gets hit by the following him (rear-end driver is usually found liable and may get a ticket) and one where the driver swerves to avoid an obstacle, blocking the adjacent lane (results tend to be more fact-dependent). ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/29 "2008-10-29T13:49:47Z")
Backing up **Gfactor** with some anecdotal evidence. In seven years of paying attention to this kind of thing, with the exception of the guy in the Eclipse Spyder who hit an angus steer in the middle of the night in BF Wyoming, I have never seen a claim involving an animal hit in which a human was killed. Not saying it never happens, but it’s rare. I have seen numerous fatalities to drivers and passengers in both the evading vehicle and oncoming traffic, however. Most times there is no report of an animal carcass in the vicinity. One of the last total losses I worked was a motorcylist who broadsided a deer. Tore up his fairing and bent his forks all to hell but he was able to pull over and park his mangled bike (a fair-sized Kawasaki 1000cc I believe). Trooper ended up shooting the deer. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/30 "2008-10-29T13:53:06Z")
That sounds about right. I’m not sure about people being killed in kangaroo collisions either (can’t remember any at least), but when I lived in the bush, I saw more than several cars that had been written off by the insurance assessors after a 'roo incident. ---
**Author:** ![Incref](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@Incref](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incref)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/31 "2008-10-30T04:03:07Z")
Thanks everyone! My opponent has conceded defeat! ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921/32 "2008-10-30T12:27:21Z")
[A timely article from Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/id/166401) > [@](#): > > Fatalities from vehicle crashes with deer and other animals have more than doubled over the last 15 years, according to a new study by an auto insurance-funded highway safety group that cites urban sprawl overlapping into deer habitat. > > The report by the Highway Loss Data Institute found that 223 people died in animal-vehicle crashes last year, up from 150 in 2000 and 101 in 1993. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-brake-for-animals-question-about-australian-traffic-law/469921.md?page=1)