# Can you break the country's law being outside that country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959 "2014-08-20T00:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/21 "2014-08-20T06:43:43Z")
It’s not clear from the Wikipedia article that Lauck hadn’t distributed the pamphlets in Germany - i.e. he may have been in Germany when he distributed the pamphlets that were the subject of the charge. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/22 "2014-08-20T06:46:40Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > What about situation like this: something is legal in country A but illegal in country B, you do that something in country A. Can you be extradited to country B (assuming they have an extradition treaty)? Depends on the terms of the extradition treaty between A and B but, in general, no. A “standard” extradition treaty will provide that country A will only extradite you to face a charge in country B if the elements of the charge would also constitute an offence in country A. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/23 "2014-08-20T06:56:01Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s not clear from the Wikipedia article that Lauck hadn’t distributed the pamphlets in Germany - i.e. he may have been in Germany when he distributed the pamphlets that were the subject of the charge. Lauck wasn’t in Germany, he was very well aware that he would be nailed there for his activities. Lauck was surprised and shocked that he got arrested in Denmark and was subsequently extradited to Germany. I’ve read about several cases in which German prosecutors wanted to go after individuals based in the United States who distribute Nazi propaganda on the internet (and thus can be accessed in Germany where it is illegal). US authorities routinely refuse to cooperate since that’s covered by free speech according to US law. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/24 "2014-08-20T06:56:44Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I always wondered about this while travelling on international flights. I’d be going from Frankfurt to Amsterdam and the announcement would say "Federal law forbids smoking, tampering with or disabling the smoke detector’. I’m on a non-US airline travelling from one foreign country to another, what does the Federal law have to do with it? How does the US reach out thousands of miles from its borders to interfere with my smoking practices? What makes you think that the word “federal” in the announcement refers to the United States federal government? Germany is also a federal republic, so it would make sense that a flight departing from Frankfurt would be subject to German federal laws on smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/25 "2014-08-20T07:17:35Z")
> [@](#): > > May 2011. Joe Gordon, an American citizen born in Thailand as Lerpong Wichaikhammat,[67] had lived in the United States for thirty years before returning to his homeland where he was arrested on charges of insulting Thailand’s monarchy — in part by posting a link on his blog to a banned book about the ailing king. Gordon is also reportedly suspected of translating, from English into Thai, portions of The King Never Smiles – an unauthorized biography of King Bhumibol Adulyadej – and posting them online, along with articles he wrote that allegedly defame the royal family.[68][69] “I want President Obama and Hillary Clinton to intervene on on my behalf,” he is quoted as saying.[70] After being denied bail eight times, a shackled–and–handcuffed Gordon said in court on 10 October, “I’m not fighting in the case. I’m pleading guilty, sirs.”[71] On 8 December 2011 a court in Thailand sentenced Joe Gordon to two and a half years in prison (halved from five years due to pleading guilty) for defaming the country’s royal family by translating excerpts of a locally banned biography of the king and posting them online.[72] The 10 October AP report on Joe Gordon’s plea adds that “Yingluck’s government has been just as aggressive in pursuing the cases as its predecessors.”. On July 10, 2012, Gordon received a pardon from the King and was released from jail.[73] > **[Lèse-majesté in Thailand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se_majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand#Cases)** > > In Thailand, lèse-majesté is a crime according to Section 112 of the Thai Criminal Code, which makes it illegal to defame, insult, or threaten the king of Thailand, the queen of Thailand, the heir to the throne of Thailand, or the regent of Thailand. Modern Thai lèse-majesté law has been on the statute books since 1908. Thailand is the only constitutional monarchy to have strengthened its lèse-majesté law since the Second World War. With penalties ranging from three to fifteen years imprisonme... ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/26 "2014-08-20T07:20:11Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > What makes you think that the word “federal” in the announcement refers to the United States federal government? Germany is also a federal republic, so it would make sense that a flight departing from Frankfurt would be subject to German federal laws on smoking. My guess would be that the announcement is “One size fits all.” If you were making an announcement specifically for Germany to the Netherlands, it would say “German law …” or “German federal law …”. When I hear a similar announcement on a flight between the U.S. and Australia, I’d know they are talking about US federal law, and not Australian federal law, because in an Australian context they are far more likely to refer to “Australian law” or “Commonwealth law” (though in an international context “Commonwealth” might be avoided, since foreigners might think it refers to law of the Commonwealth of Nations, and not to law of the Commonwealth of Australia). ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/27 "2014-08-20T07:42:05Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > well, the USA laws on sex are much more puritanical than most countries. Especially their ones on ‘age of consent’. So sex that is legal in many countries would be called ‘sexual exploitation of a child’ in parts of the USA. Like Romeo & Juliet. Or Joseph & Mary. But I don’t think age of consent can be trivially applied like that because you’d get a lot of awkward cases (e.g. needing to arrest someone for statutory rape who’s legally married to his “victim”), and/or needing to treat american-born citizens differently, and more harshly, than naturalized citizens or visitors etc. I’m not saying the US doesn’t prosecute child sex tourists, of course it does, I’m saying that as a practical matter, I suspect sex with someone over age of consent where the act took place would have to be ignored. Quite prepared to have my ignorance fought though… ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/28 "2014-08-20T13:01:27Z")
For a long time, it was illegal for a US citizen to enter certain countries, and I believe it still can be. Progressive clones of laws with the same intent kept getting overturned by the Supreme Court, and new laws enacted to replace them with the same effect. For example, the US tried but failed to prosecute a person for going across the border from Greece to Albania, but could prosecute for taking a US passport along, since the passport was US property. Repeated failures turned the law over to the Department of Commerce, in which it became illegal to use US currency to buy so much as a postage stamp that was of Rhodesian origin. It was called “US assets control”, with the government criminalizing the use of American currency for illicit purposes, even if it was first changed into euros. An American can still be arrested and prosecuted for simply going to Cuba, on a flight from Canada or Mexico, without first arranging permission from the American government to do so. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/29 "2014-08-20T13:08:53Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > You can be prosecuted for draft dodging, even if you had not yet been called up when you left the country. In the case of the US, you were expected to return when you got a draft notice. In the case of countries like Israel, you are in trouble for not returning to Israel for military service when you are 18 (or, you actually may have until you are 19 or 20 to return), even if you left as a baby. During the Viet-Nam war, people who were drafted could cross into Canada. Because Canada has no draft, they couldn’t extradite these “draft-dodgers”, as it was not illegal in Canada to refuse military service. Of course upon return to the USA, they would have been prosecuted except for the general amnesty they received. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/30 "2014-08-20T13:18:27Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I always wondered about this while travelling on international flights. I’d be going from Frankfurt to Amsterdam and the announcement would say "Federal law forbids smoking, tampering with or disabling the smoke detector’. I’m on a non-US airline travelling from one foreign country to another, what does the Federal law have to do with it? How does the US reach out thousands of miles from its borders to interfere with my smoking practices? Presumably you were on an American carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/31 "2014-08-20T13:22:42Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > An American can still be arrested and prosecuted for simply going to Cuba, on a flight from Canada or Mexico, without first arranging permission from the American government to do so. Has such a case ever occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/32 "2014-08-20T13:37:40Z")
[Yep](http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2012/07/us-tourist-ordered-to-pay-6500-fine-for-illegal-cuba-trip/812249/1). And the penalties can be [much greater](http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0426/p06s01-woam.html) if you do more than just visit without filling out a form. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/33 "2014-08-20T14:39:57Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Also, if you are in the US military, the drinking age is 21, regardless of what the drinking age is in the country where you are stationed, and that is true even if you are on leave. During the last Iraq war, it was a “dry” war. No drinking was permitted on any of the bases in Iran, Kuwait, or that area. If you went back to the US for leave, and you were over 21, you could drink, and if you got a pass for R&R in Qatar, you got coupons that were good for buying two beers a day-- again, if you were over 21. Sorry, but most of this is not true. If you are on leave, then the drinking age of wherever you may be is the rule you need to follow. The drinking age is not 21 for the entire US military everywhere at anytime. Most bases overseas defer to the local drinking age. Drinking IS permitted on those bases you mentioned, except for Iran (pretty sure no base there). The drinking rules depended on many factors, including what unit you were with, what orders you were under, etc. Bahrain has no “2 beer limit” so most people tried to get R & R there. I was stationed in Saudi Arabia, and we had a full-fledged bar on base with no limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Jaymosch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaymosch/32/2820_2.png) [@Jaymosch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaymosch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/34 "2014-08-20T14:44:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Yep](http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2012/07/us-tourist-ordered-to-pay-6500-fine-for-illegal-cuba-trip/812249/1). And the penalties can be [much greater](http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0426/p06s01-woam.html) if you do more than just visit without filling out a form. In the first article he wasn’t punished for travelling to Cuba, he was punished for spending his money there without license from the US government and lying about it too. The second link is a Canadian national who was conducting business with Cuba through a US based company. He got in trouble when he moved to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/35 "2014-08-20T14:46:19Z")
He was punished for raveling to Cuba without filing the required form, yes. > [@](#): > > The drinking age is not 21 for the entire US military everywhere at anytime. Most bases overseas defer to the local drinking age. All bases. The drinking age for bases on foreign soil (other than Canada and Mexico) is 18 unless the host country’s laws specify a higher age. ---
**Author:** ![Jaymosch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaymosch/32/2820_2.png) [@Jaymosch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaymosch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/36 "2014-08-20T14:57:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He was punished for raveling to Cuba without filing the required form, yes. Right, he was punished for not having the forms and lying. Not for the travelling. Per the state department themselves (and this relates to the pre-Obama changes to the rules): “Cuban Assets Control Regulations are enforced by the U.S. Treasury Department and affect all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located, all people and organizations physically located in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world. Regulation does not limit travel of U.S. citizens to Cuba per se, but it makes it illegal for U.S. citizens to have transactions (spend money or receive gifts) in Cuba, under most circumstances.” > **[United States embargo against Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#Restrictions_on_tourism_by_U.S._citizens_and_residents)** > > The United States embargo against Cuba has prevented U.S. businesses from conducting trade or commerce with Cuban interests since 1958. Modern diplomatic relations are cold, stemming from historic conflict and divergent political ideologies. U.S. economic sanctions against Cuba are comprehensive and impact all sectors of the Cuban economy. It is the most enduring trade embargo in modern history. .mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0; ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/37 "2014-08-20T15:01:23Z")
I think you missed the last part if the original claim: > [@](#): > > An American can still be arrested and prosecuted for simply going to Cuba, on a flight from Canada or Mexico, **without first arranging permission from the American government to do so**. [my bolding] ---
**Author:** ![Jaymosch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaymosch/32/2820_2.png) [@Jaymosch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaymosch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/38 "2014-08-20T15:04:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you missed the last part if the original claim: > > [my bolding] You haven’t shown that someone was punished simply for travelling to Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/39 "2014-08-20T15:06:54Z")
In the sense that it is _theoretically_ possible to visit a country without spending any money in it, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/40 "2014-08-20T15:09:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He was punished for raveling to Cuba without filing the required form, yes. > > All bases. The drinking age for bases on foreign soil (other than Canada and Mexico) is 18 unless the host country’s laws specify a higher age. Sorry, not to be nit picky, but I hate when people use ALL. As stated above, I was stationed on a base in Saudi Arabia, and the drinking age was 21. And the host country didn’t specify a higher age. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959.md?page=3)