# Can you break the country's law being outside that country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959 "2014-08-20T00:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jaymosch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaymosch/32/2820_2.png) [@Jaymosch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaymosch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/41 "2014-08-20T15:12:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In the sense that it is _theoretically_ possible to visit a country without spending any money in it, sure. Right, thanks for agreeing. And again, neither party in the links you provided were punished for travelling to Cuba. One spent money without a treasury department license and then not only lied about it to the customs agent but smuggled in embargoed goods. The second person was conducting commercial business through a US company. It’s not a big secret that neither of them are allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/42 "2014-08-20T15:14:00Z")
When you say “the host country didn’t specify a higher age” it’s because the host country says no one can drink. I that’s a reasonable subset of specifying a higher age, the point being that 21 is the maximum that U.S. bases will set. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/43 "2014-08-20T15:24:57Z")
It is illegal for an American citizen to travel to Canada (or any other country) and purchase Cuban cigars regardless of whether or not they were going to be smoked outside of the US. > [@](#): > > The Regulations prohibit any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction from dealing in any property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has or has had any interest. Under the Regulations, “property” is very broadly defined and includes such things as contracts and services. For example, unless authorized, persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction (including U.S. overseas subsidiaries) may not purchase Cuban cigars in third countries; may not sign a contract with a foreign firm if the contract terms include Cuba-related provisions, even if those provisions are contingent upon the lifting of the embargo; and may not provide accounting, marketing, sales, or insurance services a Cuban company or to a foreign company with respect to the foreign company’s Cuba-related business. From [here.](http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba.pdf) (pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/44 "2014-08-20T16:08:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > When you say “the host country didn’t specify a higher age” it’s because the host country says no one can drink. I that’s a reasonable subset of specifying a higher age, the point being that 21 is the maximum that U.S. bases will set. But that wasn’t Really’s point. He said ALL overseas bases are 18, unless the host country specifies a higher age. I pointed out one example I knew of that contradicted that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/45 "2014-08-20T16:31:48Z")
Saudi law actually _does_ specify a legal drinking age for foreign nationals in enclaves (military installations, consular facilities and certain petrochemical corporations’ “company towns”): it’s 21. However, you are correct that it’s not all bases because base commanders [have discretion to adopt a higher drinking age](http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/101510p.pdf). > [@](#): > > The minimum drinking age on a DoD installation located outside the United States shall be 18 years of age. A higher minimum drinking age shall be based on international treaties and agreements and on the local situation as determined by the installation commander. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/46 "2014-08-20T16:39:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Saudi law actually _does_ specify a legal drinking age for foreign nationals in enclaves (military installations, consular facilities and certain petrochemical corporations’ “company towns”): it’s 21. > > However, you are correct that it’s not all bases because base commanders [have discretion to adopt a higher drinking age](http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/101510p.pdf). That’s all I was saying. It’s sure was great to have drink in Saudi while the “deployed” military personnel were not allowed 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/47 "2014-08-20T16:42:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but most of this is not true. If you are on leave, then the drinking age of wherever you may be is the rule you need to follow. > > The drinking age is not 21 for the entire US military everywhere at anytime. Most bases overseas defer to the local drinking age. > > Drinking IS permitted on those bases you mentioned, except for Iran (pretty sure no base there). The drinking rules depended on many factors, including what unit you were with, what orders you were under, etc. > > Bahrain has no “2 beer limit” so most people tried to get R & R there. I was stationed in Saudi Arabia, and we had a full-fledged bar on base with no limitations. I made a typo, and missed the edit window-- I typed “Iran” for “Iraq.” My husband was stationed at Belad (Anaconda), in Iraq, and the base was dry. If someone tried to mail you booze, you could get in a lot of trouble, and you could not even get mouthwash or cough medicine at the PX that had alcohol. There was a zero-tolerance policy for having alcohol at Belad, and it had to do with some kind of negotiation with the Iraq government regarding having the base there in the first place. Also, when I was in the Army, we had in practically beaten into us that 21 is the drinking age in the military. However, that was a long time ago, and there were some states that still had a beer-wine age of 18 or 19, so maybe the rule applied to people on pass, or off duty _in the US_. However, my husband did say that when he got R&R in Qatar, the beer coupons were only for people over 21. I guess that could have been a command decision, though and not something based on Army policy. > [@Mijin](#): > > But I don’t think age of consent can be trivially applied like that because you’d get a lot of awkward cases (e.g. needing to arrest someone for statutory rape who’s legally married to his “victim”), and/or needing to treat american-born citizens differently, and more harshly, than naturalized citizens or visitors etc. Well, within the US, there are states where the age of marriage (16 in Indiana) is lower than the age of consent in other states (18 in California), so if a 19 year old guy, and his 17 year old bride show up for their honeymoon in California, I suppose things could get awkward, EXCEPT, I asked someone in California once, who happens to be a hotel concierge, and she said that because of inter-state marriage treaties in the US (when you are married in one state, you are married in all), it would not be statutory rape for them to have sex, but it would be a very good idea if they brought their marriage license with them. I think the US also has marriage treaties with other countries, although I’m not really sure just how it works. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > During the Viet-Nam war, people who were drafted could cross into Canada. Because Canada has no draft, they couldn’t extradite these “draft-dodgers”, as it was not illegal in Canada to refuse military service. Of course upon return to the USA, they would have been prosecuted except for the general amnesty they received. The OP didn’t say that one of the countries had to be the US, and my example applied to Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/48 "2014-08-20T17:17:42Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It is illegal for an American citizen to travel to Canada (or any other country) and purchase Cuban cigars regardless of whether or not they were going to be smoked outside of the US. Huh,didn’t know that. I smoked a few Cubans in Jamaica. The tobacconist even offered a service where, if you purchased a full box they would remove the bands, replace them with non-Cuban bands, and put them in a non-Cuban box. (All done in front of you) ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/49 "2014-08-21T01:23:28Z")
[Marc Emery](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Emery) was convicted in the US of selling marijuana seeds by mail-order, although he was living in Canada and the business was located here. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/50 "2014-08-21T02:57:01Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Has such a case ever occurred? There used to be a few cases, maybe one or two a year, when they feds would make a showcase prosecution of some guy who flew down to Cuba on a charter flight from Toronto and came back and bragged about it, but I doubt if there has been one in the past few years, since it so easy to meet the criteria for legalizing a visit. But it still technically illegal to go there without the proper documentation. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/51 "2014-08-21T03:20:41Z")
Not one of Cecil’s columns, but there’s a staff report by **gfactor** that touches on this: [In international waters, are you beyond the reach of the law?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2250/in-international-waters-are-you-beyond-the-reach-of-the-law) I thought I remembered a Cecil column in which he said an American killing another American anywhere in the world could be prosecuted back home, but I can’t find it. Does that sound familiar to anyone? There’s also the new Fatca law. You can be guilty of not reporting your income made abroad while living in another country. As for a host country extraditing someone back to the US for this, that would be interesting to see. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/52 "2014-08-21T04:11:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > . . . There’s also the new Fatca law. You can be guilty of not reporting your income made abroad while living in another country. As for a host country extraditing someone back to the US for this, that would be interesting to see. It’s generally the case that countries will not extradite for revenue offences. It’s not the business of the government of country A to help the government of country B collect its taxes. And this rationale applies in spades where the government of country B attempt to impose tax reporting/paying obligations on the residents of country A , and then asks the government of country A to extradite those of its residents who won’t comply. Not a chance. Might be different if the reporting requirements were not related to revenue but were, say, part of a suite of measures aimed at combatting criminal or terrorist money-laundering. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/53 "2014-08-21T04:49:18Z")
Every once in a while, a South Korean celebrity gets dragged in for prosecution upon returning to South Korea after going on a gambling trip in Las Vegas or similar places. Turns out it’s against Korean law for Korean citizens to gamble anywhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/54 "2014-08-21T05:12:03Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s generally the case that countries will not extradite for revenue offences. It’s not the business of the government of country A to help the government of country B collect its taxes. And this rationale applies in spades where the government of country B attempt to impose tax reporting/paying obligations on the residents of country A , and then asks the government of country A to extradite those of its residents who won’t comply. Not a chance. It doesn’t happen often, but there are examples of US citizens being extradited or detained for evading US taxes, which includes just failing to report ([example](http://www.mainstreet.com/article/moneyinvesting/taxes/irs-woes-require-professional-attention)). On why country A should help country B collect its taxes…maybe country A also would benefit from having tax cheats extradited. Or maybe country B incentivizes country A’s help. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/55 "2014-08-21T05:15:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Every once in a while, a South Korean celebrity gets dragged in for prosecution upon returning to South Korea after going on a gambling trip in Las Vegas or similar places. Turns out it’s against Korean law for Korean citizens to gamble anywhere in the world. Does anything ever come of these prosecutions or is it just for the lulz? ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/56 "2014-08-21T05:31:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Every once in a while, a South Korean celebrity gets dragged in for prosecution upon returning to South Korea after going on a gambling trip in Las Vegas or similar places. Turns out it’s against Korean law for Korean citizens to gamble anywhere in the world. I’ve always been kind of fascinated by Korea’s weird gambling system. Some places, like Jeju, are lousy with casinos, but god forbid a Korean citizen set foot in one, it’s against the law for _them_ to gamble. As far as I know, only one casino in the entire country is permitted to allow Korean nationals in. The rest exist solely to bleed foreigners dry. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/57 "2014-08-21T05:52:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It doesn’t happen often, but there are examples of US citizens being extradited or detained for evading US taxes, which includes just failing to report ([example](http://www.mainstreet.com/article/moneyinvesting/taxes/irs-woes-require-professional-attention)). > > On why country A should help country B collect its taxes…maybe country A also would benefit from having tax cheats extradited. Or maybe country B incentivizes country A’s help. The “default” rule is that extradition is not granted for fiscal offences, tax legislation having traditionally been seen as of a regulatory nature, with breaches not involving moral turpitude. There has been a trend in recent years for bilateral extradition treaties to contain a provision departing from the default, and making some or all fiscal offences extraditeable. Initially this extended to money-laundering or market-corrupting offences; increasingly it extends to all fiscal offences. The US has been at the forefront of this trend, seeking to get such a provision inserted in any extradition treaty it negotiates. The prudent tax cheat will therefore do his homework before deciding which country to flee to. If it’s the US whose clutches he is trying to escape, he should choose a country which is (a) politically and socially close enough to the US to have had an extradition treaty with them for many decades, but (b) not big enough or important enough for the extradition treaty to have been periodically revised and renegotiated. If the extradition treat with the US dates from the 50s or 60s or even 70s, it’s unlikely to allow for extradition for revenue offences. If from the mid-90s onwards, it probably does. In between those dates, go and read it. Note that this discussion is relevant to the tax cheat who cheats while in the US, and then flees. If a US citizen breaches US tax law because, while living in (say) France, he fails to report his income to the IRS, it’s very unlikely that the French would extradite him. This is not so much because the offence is a revenue offence as because of the rule of double criminality; the corresponding behavour by an expatriate Frenchman is not an offence, and in general governments won’t extradite for behaviour which is not prosecutable in their own country. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/58 "2014-08-21T07:40:06Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > I’ve always been kind of fascinated by Korea’s weird gambling system. Some places, like Jeju, are lousy with casinos, but god forbid a Korean citizen set foot in one, it’s against the law for _them_ to gamble. The same with the casinos in Nepal. Those are for foreigners only. I think it used to be that way in Singapore, but now they let Singaporeans in but after they pay a large admission fee not charged to foreigners. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/59 "2014-08-21T10:33:47Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Does anything ever come of these prosecutions or is it just for the lulz? Yep. Huge fines, sentencing to terms of imprisonment (suspended until they screw up yet again). And, of course, massive backlash from the infamous K-netizens. Oh, I forgot to mention the former Miss Korea who got hounded for appearing in a porn flick. That’s illegal under Korean law for Korean citizens, even if the flick is produced in another country. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959/60 "2014-08-21T12:41:47Z")
I won’t know how outraged and appalled to be until I’ve watched that movie a few times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-break-the-countrys-law-being-outside-that-country/695959.md?page=4)