# Can you build an aircraft using steel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 21, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859 "2018-04-21T12:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/1 "2018-04-21T12:19:43Z")
Let’s say aluminum didn’t exist. Same goes for other lightweight metals (magnesium, etc.). The only metal you have is steel. Would it be possible to build a full-size aircraft using steel where aluminum is now used? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/2 "2018-04-21T13:01:21Z")
Steel has been used for high strength components of aircraft. A tubular steel structure can be used to make the fuselage or wing structure. Think of the old birdcage race cars, or look at steel tube bicycles. You can make very strong lightweight steel structures. You still have to cover the structure, and you won’t be using steel sheet for that. Back to doped canvas perhaps 😃 OTOH, you could imagine going to a very different construction regime - perhaps pressurised vessels, or pre-stressed skins. One is reminded that the early Atlas rocket was mainly stainless steel, and relied upon internal pressure to maintain structural integrity. I doubt that lack of aluminium would be a deal breaker for the development of modern aircraft, although the construction methods would likely be significantly different. It isn’t as if aluminium is a perfect material itself. It comes with a whole raft of its own headaches. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/3 "2018-04-21T13:05:09Z")
Given enough power, they say, anything will fly. So yes. You could, ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/4 "2018-04-21T13:40:14Z")
There actually have been aircraft made primarily of steel, mostly around the 1930’s. Aluminum is more typical, true, but it hasn’t always been readily available or has at times been very expensive. The Beechcraft Staggerwing was a steel airplane in that it used steel for the metal bits, it also used wood and fabric as well. Later models of Beechcraft also incorporated a lot of steel in their construction and despite being in the “light aircraft” category they’re pretty heavy for their size. They later move to more typical aluminum use. The [Budd RB Conestoga](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_RB_Conestoga) cargo plane was stainless steel. At the time of its design, WWII, there were concerns about aluminum shortages impacting aircraft construction. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/5 "2018-04-21T13:53:01Z")
If those materials were not available, it does not mean that steal is the only alternative, Wood has been used successfully, along with fabric. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/6 "2018-04-21T13:53:21Z")
The XB-70 Valkyrie was designed to cruise at Mach 3 and so couldn’t use aluminum. It used stainless steel and titanium. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/7 "2018-04-21T14:03:55Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Steel has been used for high strength components of aircraft. A tubular steel structure can be used to make the fuselage or wing structure… You still have to cover the structure, and you won’t be using steel sheet for that. Back to doped canvas perhaps 😃 > [@Broomstick](#): > > There actually have been aircraft made primarily of steel, mostly around the 1930’s… The Beechcraft Staggerwing was a steel airplane in that it used steel for the metal bits, it also used wood and fabric as well. Yes. Steel tubing was used in WWI, for example on the Fokker D.VII. The Hawker Hurricane of WWII had its rear fuselage made of tubular steel covered with linen. Even into the '50s some airplanes were made with fabric-covered steel tubing (e.g., Piper Super Cub and Tri Pacer). The American Champion (formerly Bellanca) Champion/Citabria/Decathlon line is still made that way (though the wing spars are now metal). Welded steel structures are fairly popular in many homebuilt aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/8 "2018-04-21T14:06:10Z")
IIRC, western intelligence was surprised to find the MiG-25 was constructed with a lot of steel when they got hold of the one Victor Belenko used to defect. That also accounted for the ridiculously huge engines, which were needed for all of that weight. This is not to say the plane was badly constructed or designed. The U.S. wouldn’t have built a plane that way because we had access to better materials and facilities. There was actually some clever engineering on the MiG-25, given the circumstances of its provenance and the conditions under which it would likely operate. But in the end, the weight required some brute force in the form of huge engines. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/9 "2018-04-21T14:09:50Z")
That’s sort of Soviet engineering in a nutshell, there. Use the best materials and technology you’ve got, and when that’s lacking, make up for it with lots and lots of brute force. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/10 "2018-04-21T15:05:06Z")
As mentioned, steel tube structure with fabric or wood covering was seen even in parts of high performance military a/c up to WWII. That method is still used in some kit airplanes now. All steel construction was much less common but not unheard of. The first all metal a/c, the Junkers J1 (E.1) of 1915, was mainly made of steel: steel tube structure covered by very thin steel sheeting. But Junkers soon adopted their trademark corrugated aluminum skin (over aluminum tube) construction as for the J9 (D.1) of 1918, the first operational all metal fighter. > **[Welcome to the Hugo Junkers Homepage](http://hugojunkers.bplaced.net/index.html)** > > Junkers Aircraft Junkers Engines Junkers Companies Junkers People ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/11 "2018-04-21T17:36:54Z")
Pfft. Steel is easy. Try concrete instead. > **[College Students Make First-Ever Successful Flight And Landing Of A Concrete...](https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-05/these-college-students-flew-tiny-airplane-made-concrete-because-why-not/)** > > "I was freaked, because I was really close to it and was worried it was going to hit me." > [@](#): > > They built a super-heavy, completely impractical airplane: One made from concrete. And it worked. Kind of. > > It did not soar. It did not travel far. It did not get more than a few inches off the ground, and it did not fly straight. It flipped over and crashed, is what it did. But it got off the ground, flew, landed, and survived! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/12 "2018-04-21T19:59:33Z")
[The Budd Conestoga](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_RB_Conestoga) was made from stainless steel. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/13 "2018-04-21T21:55:00Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Pfft. Steel is easy. Try concrete instead. > > [College Students Make First-Ever Successful Flight And Landing Of A Concrete Airplane](https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-05/these-college-students-flew-tiny-airplane-made-concrete-because-why-not) Gives a whole new meaning to “having the Glide slope of a brick”. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/14 "2018-04-21T23:14:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If those materials were not available, it does not mean that steal is the only alternative, Wood has been used successfully, along with fabric. Quite right. The largest aircraft ever flown, the [Hughes H-4 (‘Spruce Goose’)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules) was made from wood (but birch, not spruce). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/15 "2018-04-22T13:18:04Z")
That record of largest plane that flew may be broken next year if the Strato-launcher flies. > **[Stratolaunch, world's largest-ever airplane with wingspan longer than a...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2018/02/28/stratolaunch-biggest-ever-airplane-completes-firsbarrels-down-runway-tests-ahead-planned-2019-maiden/380739002/)** > > The giant Stratolaunch, the largest plane ever built, executes its first runway test ahead of a 2019 launch. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/16 "2018-04-22T18:50:37Z")
My favorite sea plane is Stainless steel skinned. [Fleetwing Sea Bird](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/august/05/shiny-sea-bird) ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/17 "2018-04-23T18:29:15Z")
I once went to a little talk by Bob Hammer, who was building new Me262s (and restoring a Navy-owned one), and he said the 262 was basically a steel airplane, due to material shortages in the Reich during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/18 "2018-04-23T20:50:22Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > I once went to a little talk by Bob Hammer, who was building new Me262s (and restoring a Navy-owned one), and he said the 262 was basically a steel airplane, due to material shortages in the Reich during the war. The nose section of approximately the first 2 meters was made mainly of steel, at least that was true of the Me 262 B-1a w.nr. 110639 owned by the USN, according to “Me 262” by Smith and Creek Vol 4. Here’s a detailed description of Me 262’s structure with similar info, although it seems construction varied, for example the Me 262 B1a/U1 in the South African National War Museum has wooden construction at the least at the very tip of the nose > **[Tunaspoker: Daftar Situs IDN POKER Online | Agen Judi Online Poker](https://motherlodecafe.com/)** > > Tunaspoker adalah Daftar Situs IDN POKER Online terpercaya dan sebagai Agen Judi Online resmi IDN POKER tahun 2024 dengan menggunakan uang asli. Also the main wing spars were a composite of steel and aluminum, and there were steel reinforcing plates in various places. But the structure was mainly aluminum. The other aspect of the Me 262 and steel was that jet engine hot section components that were made of high temperature alloy steel in contemporary British and US jet engines were plain carbon steel in German ones for lack of the alloying materials. Which is why production 262’s engines had such a short operational life. The second German jet fighter the He-162 was made of more steel and wood than aluminum, but unless a country ran out of suitable wood and glue, plywood made more sense particularly for the outer skin of an a/c than steel. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/19 "2018-04-23T21:28:43Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > unless a country ran out of suitable wood and glue, plywood made more sense particularly for the outer skin of an a/c than steel. Toward the end, German glue really was bad and its wooden airplanes did fall apart. Some speculation is that the slave labor they increasingly depended upon got better at sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859/20 "2018-04-24T14:07:22Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Quite right. > The largest aircraft ever flown, the [Hughes H-4 (‘Spruce Goose’)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules) was made from wood (but birch, not spruce). Somehow, I don’t think the Birch Bitch would… fly, publicity-wise. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-build-an-aircraft-using-steel/812859.md?page=2)