# Can you describe a current Bush backer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589 "2007-01-11T18:04:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/41 "2007-01-12T18:20:09Z")
Cautiously silent. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/42 "2007-01-12T18:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] You don’t have a very good imagination. The situation in Iraq is serious, no doubt. But so serious that it’s impossible that anything of equal importance will ever occur? C’mon now. **Sam’s** right. Twenty years from now something else will be going on and it will probably be just as important than this, and possible much more so. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m glad to hear this. We can just go back to business as usual. As long as we have our tax cuts and know that more serious crises are over the horizon, we can be content knowing that 20 years from now we’ll look back on this as hardly a bump in the road. Maybe you are right. I suppose we can count on the electorate installing a slightly more incompetent GW clone. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/43 "2007-01-12T18:43:38Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] One distinguishing characteristic is the red knuckles which develop when walking on same. The typical Bush backer is woefully ignorant on foreign policy (as is he) and still thinks that the Iraq war is in some way connected with 9/11. They believe that the only casualties that matter in the Iraqi Civil War are American and the 600,000 dead Iraqis represent that many fewer terrorists or future terrorists. They believe that the mention of the phrase “9/11” conveys with it permanent possession of the Moral High Ground and with it the God-given right to murder, oppress, and torture Scary Brown People. Many Bush backers have backward views on sexuality, reproductive freedom, and the role of church in a modern society. They view homosexuality as a grave threat to the sanctity of marriage and believe that a clump of cells the size of a booger has as much right as an adult human. They would see nothing wrong with requiring the recital of The Lord’s Prayer in public schools and think that the United States was founded on Christianity. Many Bush backers are obsessed with firearms and believe that any measure to control any weapon, no matter how deadly and useless for hunting or self defense, is but an initial step in the bogeyman’s quest for confiscating all privately owned guns. They can recite by heart the Second Half of the Second Amendment but haven’t a clue about the intent of the first half. Many Bush backers are of modest means but believe that the Estate Tax, which wouldn’t affect estates tenfold their own personal net worth, are going to keep their children from inheiriting their homes. They believe that government services that they approve of should be provided but that nobody should have to pay for them. Saint Ronald taught them that there is a free lunch and by golly they are going to eat it. They believe that taxes need to be cut on millionaires and that the vice president’s cronies have every right to gorge themselves at the public trough. As short, they are as ignorant a group as exists on the planet. [/QUOTE] Thank God you didn’t give an ignorant answer :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/44 "2007-01-12T18:50:47Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Well, I’m glad to hear this. We can just go back to business as usual. As long as we have our tax cuts and know that more serious crises are over the horizon, we can be content knowing that 20 years from now we’ll look back on this as hardly a bump in the road. Maybe you are right. I suppose we can count on the electorate installing a slightly more incompetent GW clone. [/QUOTE] Damn, you’re right on the money! How you’ve opened my eyes with the bright light of your wise sarcasm. Bush is teh worstest president eva! America has never been in a worse predicament than it is now and never will be again. What shall we do! If anybody needs me I’ll either be A.) stocking up on canned foods and shotgun ammo or B.) going about with my daily life and chuckling at the foolish and alarmist hyperbole that some on the left have regarding Bush and Iraq. I leave it to you to tell which it is. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/45 "2007-01-12T18:58:04Z")
**[MODERATING]** OK. We now have several posters identifying themselves as supporters of President Bush and several posters making the claim that anyone who supports President Bush is stupid. Now that everyone (on one side of the fence) has had their giggles, there will be no more stupid insults. To date, the claims of mental deficiencies have been general and those posters who have professed their support have had the grace to not respond to the stupid comments. As this thread goes on, I suspect that that will change. Before the stupid comments begin to be delivered (or taken) as personal insults, I am declaring them off limits. The discussion is in regards to what persons (or what sort of persons) continue to support the president. Dismissive claims of stupidity are neither necessary nor productive. If you need to call anyone–even generically–stupid, then open up your own **Pit** thread and do it there. It is no longer a legitimate comment in this thread. **[MODERATING]** ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/46 "2007-01-12T19:09:16Z")
[QUOTE=mr. jp] 50% have below the median intelligence, but I doubt 50% have below average. Do you have a cite? [/QUOTE] Intelligence is typically normally distributed. In a normal distribution, mean=median-mode. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/47 "2007-01-12T19:58:43Z")
Thanks, **tom** (ya flaming lefty you!;)) I really want to thank those folks who posted their honest explanations of their positions. Personally I don’t really understand them, I don’t agree with them, and I wish you didn’t feel that way - but I’m glad to at least get some insight into who you are and where you are coming from. In my mind, this is like a kinda short list of issues - abortion, belief in a deity, maybe gay marriage - where groups hold completely divergent opinions, with neither side being able to imagine how any sane/compassionate/rational person could hold the opposite view. Like I said, you haven’t convinced me to change my stripes: that was not the goal of this thread nor do I suppose any of you considered that as even the remotest possibility. But I do believe that ANY attempt at conversation - and understanding where others are coming from - is more likely to bear positive results in the long run, than rote demonization and ridicule (not that a little demonization and ridicule in the right place can’t be fun! ;)) I’ve read everything that has been written, and would appreciate reading more. I’ve been thinking about whether and how I might respond, but have not thought of anything yet. I’m often struck by how out-of-the-loop I can be by the mere nature of my circumstances - a college-educated middle-class, white professional living and working in and near a large midwestern city. I simply don’t know if vast swaths of differently situated people might feel differently than I and most of the people I encounter. I can think of 2 guys for sure in my 60-person office who would fervently support Bush and probably the current war efforts. But I have to work with those guys, and can pleasantly interact with them socially. Past experiences have shown that both of those are made less comfortable when we discuss politics in anything other than the most superficial manner. I appreciate those of you who have provided insight I find it hard to obtain IRL. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/48 "2007-01-12T22:13:43Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] I guess you could call me a Bush backer. I voted for him twice and would do so again if the alternative was John Kerry or Al Gore. [/QUOTE] Assuming we got a chance at a do-over on the '04 election, is there anyone, Dem or Pub, whom you **would** vote for against W if that candidate promised to get our troops out of Iraq ASAP? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/49 "2007-01-12T22:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] The two are linked, not because of any tie between Saddam and the towers, but because they are both parts of the war on terror. [/QUOTE] 😕 But, Iraq is **not** part of the war on terror. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/50 "2007-01-12T22:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 😕 But, Iraq is **not** part of the war on terror. [/QUOTE] Oh, but you see, it is. Since we took Saddam & his government out, we made a nice little place for the terrorists to strike a blow at the yankee imperialist occupiers & usurpers. Those insurgents we hear so much about? Terrorists. yeah, all of 'em. Anyone who uses car bombs or IEDs is a terrorist. Now that I have my mind mand uop, don’t try to confuse me with facts, like that there were no terrorists in Iraq when Saddam was in power, or how he as a secular dictator had no love for religious fundamentalist nutjobs. the terrorists are there now. _We_ made it part of the war of terror. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/51 "2007-01-12T22:50:39Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Assuming we got a chance at a do-over on the '04 election, is there anyone, Dem or Pub, whom you **would** vote for against W if that candidate promised to get our troops out of Iraq ASAP? [/QUOTE] Well given that I voted for Kerry, maybe I’m not the best person to answer. But I would have voted for Bush over (out of the field of real primary candidates), Sharpton, Braun, Gephart, or Kucinich, but voted for Clark, Dean, Kerry Graham, Edwards or even Lieberman over Bush. I’m still pissed that you Democrats didn’t nominate Dean. I’m convinced he’d have kicked Bush’s ass up, down, and sideways. How you could nominate someone more inarticulate than Bush is surely going down as one of the great mysteries of the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/52 "2007-01-12T23:27:55Z")
Probably overestimated us. Again. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/53 "2007-01-13T03:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] Damn, you’re right on the money! How you’ve opened my eyes with the bright light of your wise sarcasm. Bush is teh worstest president eva! America has never been in a worse predicament than it is now and never will be again. What shall we do! If anybody needs me I’ll either be A.) stocking up on canned foods and shotgun ammo or B.) going about with my daily life and chuckling at the foolish and alarmist hyperbole that some on the left have regarding Bush and Iraq. I leave it to you to tell which it is. [/QUOTE] I think it is somewhat ridiculous to argue about whether or not this is the worst blunder in history. What the hell difference does it make if it gets outpointed by a couple of others? Likewise the claim that it will not seem so bad in twenty years. We don’t live twenty years into the future. The people who are dying are dying now. The damage to the US is happening now. The interest on the money that is being borrowed now is accumulating now. If people want to talk about twenty years into the future, those living then will still be paying that interest. I find the statement stupid that seems to dismiss the severity of the blunders that are going on now on grounds that some hypothetical worse blunders might be made in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/54 "2007-01-13T03:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=Foxy40] Initially, I thought our sending our troops into Iraq was misguided to say the least. It was like a bad fairy tale: Bush: Little Sadaam Little Sadaam, let us in. SH: Not by the hair of my chiny chin chin. Bush: Then I will huff and puff and blow your house down. Which is essentially what he had us do. [/QUOTE] You are aware, are you not, that Saddam DID allow the UN inspectors back into Iraq before the war? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/55 "2007-01-13T14:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] More serious crises? It’s hard to get more serious than a ham-handed move that destabilizes a region that has a substantial fraction of the world’s supply of a vital comodity on which the economy relies, oil. It’s hard to get more serious than a nut job who hints at taking on Iran while fully, and even over-fully, engaged in Iraq. I’ve seen a number of crises come and go and I don’t see this Iraq thing as something that will be forgotten in twenty years, which, by the way, is the wink of an eye. Quite frankly, I don’s see the US ever recovering whatever good name we had before the disaster that GW has managed us into. [/QUOTE] I heard the exact same words with Vietnam, except for the oil part. Some things never change. Trust me, there will be new crises that leave today’s in the dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/56 "2007-01-16T14:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I find the statement stupid that seems to dismiss the severity of the blunders that are going on now on grounds that some hypothetical worse blunders might be made in the future. [/QUOTE] What statement? Oh, the one I never made and you just made up and attributed to me? Yeah. I find that statement stupid also. ---
**Author:** ![mallurox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@mallurox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mallurox)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/57 "2007-01-16T16:22:02Z")
I AM an America backer. Not technically a Bush backer of course, but i support the American effort in Iraq [only there though]. I am not an American nor an Arab, i happen to think Iraq was a blunder and that Bush [in the case of Iraq] is as much a war criminal as Saddam Hussein. But for my own reasons i support the American invasion as it stands in Iraq today. I’d like to see the military stay in Iraq and if possible acheive some semblance of a victory. I back Bush in his idea of pushing more troops there even. Please suspend moral judgement while you take the time out to read my opinion. RealPolitik is not about right and wrong, its about what can be acheived. And where America and much of the world stands right now is to either press on or to provide a crucial fillip to Osama Bin Laden. Bush has percipated the current situation no doubt, but it is critical at this juncture that Americans not fall prey to self doubt. Between the evil forces of OBL and Bush, i pick Bush as the lesser one. Leaving Iraq now would create such a vaccum of leadership that only OBL or some such guy would gain ascendancy. They would point at Iraq and tell their young impressionable recruits that “If it bleeds we can kill it”. That Americans are afraid of real pain and are not men enough. If this sounds like rabble rousing rhetoric, please understand that it will be effective. Deny them this victory at all costs please. The brand of evil they bring to the table is worse as they thrive only on chaos. They are criminals - not misguided politicians or angry reactionaries. To kill is an end unto itself. If you leave, do you think they will find it harder to follow you?? There is no advantage [in realpolitik terms that is; i dont speak of innocent lives - civilian and military] in leaving Iraq. Whatever gains you can make can only be made by staying. I am aware that i urge from the sidelines and that i do not have a dog in this fight … yet. But large parts of the world have been bleeding due to terrorists before 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/58 "2007-01-16T17:21:45Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] What statement? Oh, the one I never made and you just made up and attributed to me? Yeah. I find that statement stupid also. [/QUOTE] Well, given that you misparaphrased **David** in this statement > [@Debaser](#): > > You don’t have a very good imagination. The situation in Iraq is serious, no doubt. But so serious that it’s impossible that anything of equal importance will ever occur? C’mon now. and then falsely attributed a completely different claim to him in this statement > [@Debaser](#): > > Damn, you’re right on the money! How you’ve opened my eyes with the bright light of your wise sarcasm. Bush is teh worstest president eva! America has never been in a worse predicament than it is now and never will be again. What shall we do? His paraphrase of your comment seems as close to accurate as anything you have attributed to him. _::: shrug :::_ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/59 "2007-01-16T17:28:45Z")
[QUOTE=mallurox] RealPolitik is not about right and wrong, its about what can be acheived. And where America and much of the world stands right now is to either press on or to provide a crucial fillip to Osama Bin Laden. [/QUOTE] If we leave now, the Mehdi Army (Shiite) will eviscerate Al Qaeda in Iraq (Sunni). The tendency to view all radical muslims as a block with the same goal is what is flawed in the post-9/11 Bush doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589/60 "2007-01-16T17:33:08Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Well, given that you misparaphrased **David** in this statementand then falsely attributed a completely different claim to him in this statementHis paraphrase of your comment seems as close to accurate as anything you have attributed to him. _::: shrug :::_ [/QUOTE] Don’t bother. Those who make light of our current problem in Iraq because something worse might happen down the road aren’t worth the trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-describe-a-current-bush-backer/387589.md?page=4)