# Can You Develop P{sychic Abilities By Training?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 28, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771 "2003-11-28T20:49:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/21 "2003-11-29T15:30:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ralph124c \*
> \*\*I posed the question because J.B. Rhine (the defacto father of psychic research), found that the subjects he tested ALWAYS showed declines in (psychic) abilities. It NEVER went the other way! Rhine attributed this decline to boredom…skeptics (like James Randi) attribute it to tightened-up experimental standards. One would assume that if psychic abilities were like baseball, then increased practice would yield better performance…unfortunately, thisisn’t the case (as far as I can see).
> Anybody know of any BREAKTHROUGHS in psychic research? \*\*
I attribute the decline to stress, when you try to produce more and more, you usually run into the law of diminishing return.
Psychic ability is not for show but for living better.
Love
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/22 "2003-11-29T15:37:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> **…Tell me “exactly” what it is you want a cite for and I will look around for you…**
That there is even one grain of repeatable experimental proof that any psi-ability exists. That’d be a start.
And you still owe me a withdrawal [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4286950#post4286950)
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### Author:  [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/23 "2003-11-29T15:46:55Z")
As requested…
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> \*\*Yes, psychic abilities can be improved with training. Everyone has them to some degree. \*\*
Cite? Evidence?
> [@](#):
>
> **even more so since NDEs have shown evidence of consciousness continues after the death of the body.**
Cite? Anything at all that shows what is experienced in NDEs is not simply evidence of you being _ill_?
> [@](#):
>
> **There will be a great deal more spiritual and psychic studies in the future, I know of at least four universities studying spiritual experiences and at least one with positive results.**
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/24 "2003-11-29T17:22:54Z")
**Futile Gesture,** you beat me to it. But I warn you, if you have never dealt with **Lekatt,** it is a futile gesture. He runs a website dedicated to NDEs and OBEs and he will believe anything as long as he can tag “LOVE” on the end of it.
Here, I’ll show you what I mean:
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Lekatt_
> Psychic ability is not for show but for living better.
Who wouldn’t live better with a cool $Mil? Go for it!
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/25 "2003-11-29T17:51:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _lekatt wrote_
> Psychic ability is not for show but for living better.
So is medicine, but you can still test its effects scientifically. Psychic ability is rather unique if it’s real and its reality is unprovable.
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### Author:  [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/26 "2003-11-29T19:29:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Squink \*
> \*\*Psychic abilities, if they exist, might be like perfect pitch, either you’ve got it, or not. No amount of training can make it better. We’ll have to find some real psychics, and try training them, before answering your question. \*\*
Nitpick: I have developed an excellent _pitch memory_ where I can detect only by listening if something is out of tune to a standard A = 440 range. I can reproduce notes and chords that I hear by listening to them and playing them on the piano. I was not born with this ability; it developed over time as I continued to play piano. See also Cecil’s column on perfect pitch (which I don’t know how to link to). In the case of perfect pitch, I believe one can develop this talent.
FISH
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### Author:  [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/27 "2003-11-29T20:53:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> If everything I say is either ridiculous or fantastic can there be cites?
\*\*
Oh well then that’s different! Since everything you say is ridiculous or fantastic there can be no cites, therefore you must be right by default!
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### Author:  [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/28 "2003-11-29T22:43:08Z")
You’re welcome, **lekatt**. 🙂
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \*
> \*\*That there is even one grain of repeatable experimental proof that any psi-ability exists. That’d be a start. \*\*
There may be; IIRC US and Russian scientists did a lot of experimentation on the subject of psychic phenomena in the mid 20th century. On the other hand, although anecdotal evidence isn’t taken seriously on this board, enough things have happened to me that I can no longer doubt such phenomena personally. Especially when I come to believe something specific about them and out of the blue somebody I don’t even know posts exactly the same thing.
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/29 "2003-11-29T23:54:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> \*\*There may be; IIRC US and Russian scientists did a lot of experimentation on the subject of psychic phenomena in the mid 20th century. On the other hand, although anecdotal evidence isn’t taken seriously on this board, enough things have happened to me that I can no longer doubt such phenomena personally. Especially when I come to believe something specific about them and out of the blue somebody I don’t even know posts exactly the same thing. \*\*
Hey **cityboy916** , which bit of _cite_ don’t you understand? I’m all for **lekatt** getting a little bit of support (God knows he needs it), but do you have to emulate him so exactly?
Cites = IIRC? No!
Cites = Anecdotes? No!
Cites = Witnessing? No!
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/30 "2003-11-30T00:01:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Fish \*
> \*\*Nitpick: I have developed an excellent _pitch memory_ where I can detect only by listening if something is out of tune to a standard A = 440 range. I can reproduce notes and chords that I hear by listening to them and playing them on the piano. I was not born with this ability; it developed over time as I continued to play piano. See also Cecil’s column on perfect pitch (which I don’t know how to link to). In the case of perfect pitch, I believe one can develop this talent.
>
> FISH \*\*
Yes, but there **is** a provable thing called pitch memory, not so with psychic ability.
Heck, can I train myself to step on teh blue elephants in my yard?😉
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/31 "2003-11-30T00:12:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by vanilla \*
> \*\*Heck, can I train myself to step on the blue elephants in my yard?😉 \*\*
Not without me calling the International League For The Ethical Treatment Of Blue Elephants (ILETBE) you can’t!
(BTW, did you know that thin slices of their trunks can make quite marketable bangles?)
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/32 "2003-11-30T00:26:15Z")
Perfect **Fish,** I mean perfect **pitch,** is not a psychic ability and has no relevance to this discussion.
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/33 "2003-11-30T00:42:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Musicat \*
> \*\*Perfect (pitch) is not a psychic ability and has no relevance to this discussion. \*\*
Could be! Suppose you were a psychic mind-reader, but had lousy pitch, _however_, the guy in the front row is like a walking tuning-fork… see where I’m going with this?
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/34 "2003-11-30T00:51:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \*
> \*\*That there is even one grain of repeatable experimental proof that any psi-ability exists. That’d be a start.
>
> And you still owe me a withdrawal [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4286950#post4286950) \*\*
I found so many grains of proof that I didn’t know which to offer.
You really ought to use Google more.
[http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea](http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea)
On your asked withdrawal, no, what I said was accurate. Not only did you change the flow of the post to make it personal for you, but you didn’t understand the point to begin with. Sorry.
Love
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/35 "2003-11-30T00:53:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \*
> \*\*That there is even one grain of repeatable experimental proof that any psi-ability exists. That’d be a start.
>
> And you still owe me a withdrawal [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4286950#post4286950) \*\*
I found so many grains of proof that I didn’t know which to offer.
You really ought to use Google more.
[http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea](http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea)
On your asked withdrawal, no, what I said was accurate. Not only did you change the flow of the post to make it personal for you, but I don’t believe you understood the point to begin with. Sorry. I try to be fair.
Love
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/36 "2003-11-30T01:04:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Musicat \*
> \*\ ***Futile Gesture,** you beat me to it. But I warn you, if you have never dealt with **Lekatt,** it is a futile gesture. He runs a website dedicated to NDEs and OBEs and he will believe anything as long as he can tag “LOVE” on the end of it.
>
> Here, I’ll show you what I mean:
> Who wouldn’t live better with a cool $Mil? Go for it! \*\*
My favorite subject: Love. Yes, if you love sufficiently you can see beyond belief and skepticsm, even beyond good and evil, actually beyond the dualism of the whole planet.
Love
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/37 "2003-11-30T01:07:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Azael \*
>
> * * *
>
> Oh well then that’s different! Since everything you say is ridiculous or fantastic there can be no cites, therefore you must be right by default! \*\*
Excellent!
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/38 "2003-11-30T01:13:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Marley23 \*
> \*\*So is medicine, but you can still test its effects scientifically. Psychic ability is rather unique if it’s real and its reality is unprovable. \*\*
No better than Psychic ability. Give the same dose of the same medicine to 100 people and some will get no benefit from it, some will, and others will be allergic to it and almost die. Each reaction will be different because each person is different. Science covers this up with numbers and contraindications.
I think that was a bad example.
Love
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### Author:  [@MyOld85MG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyOld85MG)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/39 "2003-11-30T01:28:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> \*\*No better than Psychic ability. Give the same dose of the same medicine to 100 people and some will get no benefit from it, some will, and others will be allergic to it and almost die. Each reaction will be different because each person is different. Science covers this up with numbers and contraindications.
> \*\*
Psychic ability: Give the same test to 100 people and some will show no psychic ability, some will, and others will refuse to take the test or deliberately give “wrong” answers.
In any case, if there are any who have psychic ability, it will show up. Just like the benefits of medication for those whose bodies benefit from it.
It hasn’t.
So, I think it was a good example.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/40 "2003-11-30T01:41:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> My favorite subject: Love. Yes, if you love sufficiently you can see beyond belief and skepticsm, even beyond good and evil, actually beyond the dualism of the whole planet.
>
> Love
Right. 😃
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