# Can You Develop P{sychic Abilities By Training?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 28, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771 "2003-11-28T20:49:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/61 "2003-11-30T17:10:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \*
> \*\*So you’re _not_ going to offer any cites for your statements?? When you said you were joking? Or was I not being exact enough? What’s the problem with naming those four universities?
>
> But you’re not going to even point us in the right direction? Not even cites of those four universities, ‘at least’ one of which was getting positive results? I’m sure they would be a very convincing place to start.
>
> Or maybe you have nothing factual to offer at all, just the usual nonsense, but were hoping no-one would bother to ask? \*\*
I have provided more cites than anyone on paranormal abilities. They are seldom read and always dumped on by the skeptics. The Universite of Virginia is studying several paranormal themes. So is Duke University. There are studies being done in Holland and England also. The paranormal field is now anchored by near death experiences which prove consciousness continues after death. The evidence provided gives credence to other paranormal events.
The spiritual world’s existence is known and things like ESP, Psychics and such fit into this world easily.
> [@](#):
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> “Tens of surveys in different countries throughout the world indicate that 8 to 20% (10% overall estimate) of individuals report having at least one out-of-body experience in their lifetime. On December 15, 2001, the highly respected international medical journal, The Lancet, published a 13-year study of Near Death Experiences (NDEs) observed in 10 different Dutch hospitals. In one of very few NDE studies to be conducted prospectively, meaning that a large group of people experiencing cessation of their heart and/or breathing function were resuscitated during a fixed period of time, 18% of the patients reported NDEs.”
In the above study it was stated.
P. van Lommel went on to say: “Several theories have been proposed to explain NDE. We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest.”
I know that skeptics might say Psychics have nothing to do with NDEs, but that is because they don’t understand the material.
All I can do it say to **read the material** in order to understand. The evidence is solid.
Love
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/62 "2003-11-30T17:12:41Z")
Yea whatever, Czarcasm- He’s the one claiming it has \*not \*been replicated. I’d like to see his evidence before I give mine.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/63 "2003-11-30T17:13:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> How would you “tighten” the controls in such an experiment? [the PEAR study]
[ul][li]By hiring a magician to advise, to reduce the chances of deliberate fraud[_]By using double-blind controls[_]By defining what is to be proved IN ADVANCE rather than looking for patterns AFTER the test[/ul][/li][quote]
I would never alter or misquote Arthur C. Clarke as you have done. Sacrilege!
[/QUOTE]
Smiley when you say that, Podner! 🙂
Actually, I will agree with Clarke’s quote with or without the modification; my point being that even well-meaning scientists can be mislead by their predjuces, whether pro or con.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/64 "2003-11-30T17:25:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> Yea whatever, Czarcasm- He’s the one claiming it has \*not \*been replicated. I’d like to see his evidence before I give mine.
So you’re holding back, eh? 🙂
I can never prove that something does NOT exist. It is entirely possible that dozens of studies have been done that support your postulate, and they have been kept secret.
But just how likely is that? The scientific world would be all agog if the very existance of paranormal phenomena could be repeatedly proven by anyone and everyone. The scientific world has been waiting for over 200 years. So let’s see those studies!
**Devilsknew,** **you** are the one making the claim that would revolutionize science. **You** are the one upon whom the burden of proof falls. And it’s a heavy burden, indeed; don’t get crushed.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/65 "2003-11-30T17:35:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> \*\*Yea whatever, Czarcasm- He’s the one claiming it has \*not \*been replicated. I’d like to see his evidence before I give mine. \*\*
And how in the _hell_ do you propose he prove that the study didn’t get replicated without providing the results of _every single, solitary study published by every single, solitary educational intstitution in the entire world since that poorly-run PEAR study was done in the first place_?!?
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/66 "2003-11-30T17:58:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> The Universite of Virginia is studying several paranormal themes. So is Duke University. There are studies being done in Holland and England also.
Always a bridesmaid, never a bride, eh? So how are those studies coming? After how many years? Are they getting better?
> [@](#):
>
> _from [Characterizations of quack theories](http://quasar.as.utexas.edu/BillInfo/Quack.html)_
> NO DEEPENING EVIDENCE. Similarly, theoretical knowledge should grow and become more detailed as experience increases. In the 1960s, molecular biologists could only mouth vague claims about DNA guiding the development of organisms. Now they can tell how this happens in more detail, and back this discussion by (tens of?) thousands of experiments that evince these details.
Are those studies getting increasingly positive results? Can they now teach others to repeat the experiment? If not, when will this happen?
> [@](#):
>
> _ibid._
> CONTINUING NEGATIVE RESULTS. Negative results count more against a claim than positive results count for it. This is especially true if negative results continue over time as the alleged phenomenon is studied, even if they are few in number compared to the positive results. The reason is simple. If the phenomenon is real, those studying it should eventually reach the point where they can reliably demonstrate it and where they can teach others how to reliably demonstrate it.
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/67 "2003-11-30T21:04:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Musicat \*
> \*\*Always a bridesmaid, never a bride, eh? So how are those studies coming? After how many years? Are they getting better? Are those studies getting increasingly positive results? Can they now teach others to repeat the experiment? If not, when will this happen? \*\*
Did you not read my post? Of course they are becoming more positive.
In the research it was reported that no physical cause could be found for NDEs. This is a huge finding. Puts to rest all the “alternate theories” of skeptics. Now they are repeating the experiment. I am sure it will have the same result.
Do you understand that it means consciousness continues after the death of the body, and explains much about Psychics.
Deny all you want, the evidence is solid.
Love
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### Author:  [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/68 "2003-11-30T21:30:23Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> \*\*I found so many grains of proof that I didn’t know which to offer.
>
> You really ought to use Google more.
>
> [http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea\*\*](http://www.psiresearch.org/para2.html#ninea**)
> [@](#):
>
> A meta-analysis of the database, published in 1989, examined 800 experiments by more than 60 researchers over the preceding 30 years. The effect size was found to be very small, but remarkably consistent, resulting in an overall statistical deviation of approximately 15 standard errors from a chance effect. The probability that the observed effect was actually zero (i.e., no psi) was less than one part in a trillion, verifying that human consciousness can indeed affect the behavior of a random physical system. Furthermore, while experimental quality had significantly increased over time, this was uncorrelated with the effect size, in contradiction to a frequent, but unfounded skeptical criticism.
Here’s the paragraph you linked to. The fact that it describes a paper, but doesn’t say who wrote it, who published it, etc, makes it unfortunately insufficient. Is elsewhere on that site better?
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Glee_
> If psychic powers did exist, it would be simple to test for them.
Well, not necessarily. If they genuinely due work only when the stars are aligned and the performer is under certain kinds of stress, etc, then you would expect scattered anecdotal evidence, but nothing repeatable. The problem is that the fact that it could work isn’t enough, one does need to find some evidence before claiming that psi works.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/69 "2003-11-30T21:44:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> First, I was simply interjecting that our Government had some reason to believe that Remote Viewing was a worthwhile intelligence project, while it lasted. It seems that experimental data supports this.
Americans send loads of money every year to ‘Nigerian Bankers’ - who offer the victims a share in a large sum of money left in a bank account. All you have to do is give these ‘bankers’ your own account details…
Similarly the US Govenrment does spend money investigating amazing claims. This one didn’t work, so they abandoned it.
If you have know of experimental data that supports Remote Viewing, do publish it.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> I, however, am not so quick to dismiss the legitimate scientific, experimental, and analytical works at [The Boundary Institute](http://www.boundary.org/experiments.htm) that you so cheaply and blatantly devalue with some random quotes and inarguable reasoning.
You said (my bolding) “I have found some interesting scientific papers and **evidence** here.”
I quoted these, from your source:
“We are developing and testing new theories and descriptions of physical reality including psi functioning.”
"Might it be that the core laws of quantum mechanics, like entropy and the second law of thermodynamics, really belong to a wider domain of nature than physics? "
These quotes are **not** evidence. They betray a hopeful attitude that this ‘Institute’ can make amazing scientific breakthroughs.
Incidentally, what makes this ‘Institute’ legitimate?
And would you pay money to learn dowsing from the British Dowsing Association?
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/70 "2003-11-30T21:48:00Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by lekatt \*
> **…In the research it was reported that no physical cause could be found for NDEs.**
Not so if the quote you gave previously is representative:
“We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest”
_We did not show_ is not the same as _we could not find_ – is your re-interpretation “not honest and straightforward”?
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/71 "2003-11-30T21:52:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> If psychic powers did exist, it would be simple to test for them.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Shade \*
> Well, not necessarily. If they genuinely due work only when the stars are aligned and the performer is under certain kinds of stress, etc, then you would expect scattered anecdotal evidence, but nothing repeatable. The problem is that the fact that it could work isn’t enough, one does need to find some evidence before claiming that psi works.
No, you have shown the way yourself. All we have to is find one person who performs a psychic power once.
Then we replicate the conditions. Wait for planetary re-alignment; recreate the stress; whatever it takes.
In any case, there are many psychics who claim they can always perform. Sadly none of them can do so under test conditions…
Perhaps we could ask Lekatt what exactly he means by his claim that all of us have paranormal powers. How does he know? How often do these powers manifest?
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### Author:  [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/72 "2003-11-30T22:55:08Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Musicat \*
> \*\*Then, Sir, you may not be so much _wrong_ as you are _in the wrong forum._ If you wish to give an unsubstantiated opinion, you might get a better reception in MPSIMS. \*\*
Or IMHO.
> [@](#):
>
> But the question of “whether or not they exist” cannot be ignored, or the OP is merely a theoretical, philosophical, metaphysical postulate and once again, is in the wrong forum.
Yes, it occurred to me that perhaps the OP should have started this thing in IMHO.
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> \*\*I would like to hear a believer in psychic phenomena explain to me the mechanism by which it works. By what physical process is a person able to read minds, “remote view” events in other location, predict the future, bend spoons or talk to dead people? \*\*
Would you really? It might be out of place in this forum. I can answer to all of those phenomena, but only with my own _personal spiritual beliefs_ not proven facts. I cannot cite personal spiritual beliefs. Still want to know? Just say so and I’ll give you my interpretation.
> [@](#):
>
> Is it just magic or does it follow the laws of physics?
I tend to believe that science will eventually discover nonphysical realms where these phenomena make sense. It might take a thousand years, but I think it will happen. Quantum physics is already well on its way to proving the existence of consciousness what with the effect an observer has and all.
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> **In any case, there are many psychics who claim they can always perform. Sadly none of them can do so under test conditions…**
Performance anxiety, perhaps? Exactly what kind of “laboratory conditions” are we talking about? Cite? Actually, the [Monroe Institute](http://www.monroeinstitute.org/) conducts research into remote viewing and out-of-body experiences. Dr. Robert Monroe himself, in his books, claims to have had some success. Participants would get into soundproof chambers and report actually leaving their bodies to explore the universe. In fact, they even explored the solar system looking for extraterrestrial life and found nothing. These people are not quacks.
I think whenever there is a subject like this where people disagree, there is a good reason to take the pro side and a good reason to take the con side. AFAIK nobody is claiming the existence of Invisible Purple Unicorns (whatever) because nobody has a good reason to believe that IPUs exist.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/73 "2003-12-01T00:51:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> Yes, it occurred to me that perhaps the OP should have started this thing in IMHO.
Agreed (especially since no evidence seems to be forthcoming).
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> I would like to hear a believer in psychic phenomena explain to me the mechanism by which it works. By what physical process is a person able to read minds, “remote view” events in other location, predict the future, bend spoons or talk to dead people?
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> Would you really? It might be out of place in this forum. I can answer to all of those phenomena, but only with my own _personal spiritual beliefs_ not proven facts. I cannot cite personal spiritual beliefs. Still want to know? Just say so and I’ll give you my interpretation.
Are you saying you have experience of all the above, or that you can explain how they work, or both?
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> I tend to believe that science will eventually discover nonphysical realms where these phenomena make sense. It might take a thousand years, but I think it will happen.
Why do you believe this? What evidence do you have?
In the last hundred years, science has provided flight, split the atom, discovered drugs like penicillin, allowed us to visit the Moon, created the Internet and is well on the way to cracking our genetic code.
Why does it take so long to discover psychic powers?
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by glee_
> In any case, there are many psychics who claim they can always perform. Sadly none of them can do so under test conditions…
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> Performance anxiety, perhaps? Exactly what kind of “laboratory conditions” are we talking about? Cite?
See:
> **[Home](https://web.randi.org)**
>
> JREF
Dowsers have claimed the money and scored 100% when they knew where the target was, but dropped instantly to chance levels when the target was concealed.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> Actually, the [Monroe Institute](http://www.monroeinstitute.org/) conducts research into remote viewing and out-of-body experiences. Dr. Robert Monroe himself, in his books, claims to have had some success. Participants would get into soundproof chambers and report actually leaving their bodies to explore the universe. In fact, they even explored the solar system looking for extraterrestrial life and found nothing. These people are not quacks.
Let me get this straight. **You believe that people can send their consciousness millions of miles through space, simply because they tell you they can?
You know there is no extraterrestrial life in the solar system, just because they say so?**
Do you not feel even the tiniest urge to check their statements?
How about they predict what a NASA probe will find?
How do you know they are not quacks?
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> I think whenever there is a subject like this where people disagree, there is a good reason to take the pro side and a good reason to take the con side. AFAIK nobody is claiming the existence of Invisible Purple Unicorns (whatever) because nobody has a good reason to believe that IPUs exist.
Well you seem pretty confident that Invisible Purple Unicorns don’t exist. Suppose Dr. Robert Monroe himself told you they did. Would you believe him - just because he said so?
If there is a massive history of evidence, including successful predictions such as eclipses, on one side of an argument, and the other side consists of saying that something will turn up in the next thousand years, there is **not** a good reason to treat both sides equally.
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### Author:  [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/74 "2003-12-01T00:52:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Dr. Robert Monroe himself, in his books, claims to have had some success. Participants would get into soundproof chambers and report actually leaving their bodies to explore the universe. In fact, they even explored the solar system looking for extraterrestrial life and found nothing. These people are not quacks.
\*\*
I beg to differ, this sounds rather like the height of quackery. Nevermind exploring the solar system and asserting things about it that cannot be independently confirmed, if it is in fact so easy then these techniques should pass a controlled experiment where OBEs are used to describe items or events in a sealed off room. Most of us here are still waiting for something like this that can be independently repeated and verified.
And if all of us have “paranormal” powers, wouldn’t that make them just “normal” powers?
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### Author:  [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/75 "2003-12-01T01:00:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\* there is a massive history of evidence, including successful predictions such as eclipses, on one side of an argument
\*\*
I’m not really what you are getting at here but successful predictions of eclipses are hardly evidence of supernatural powers. Most any society with a grasp of how the sun, stars and moon move in the sky has been able to prediict eclipses.
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### Author:  [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/76 "2003-12-01T01:35:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> **No, you have shown the way yourself. All we have to is find one person who performs a psychic power once.
> Then we replicate the conditions. Wait for planetary re-alignment; recreate the stress; whatever it takes.
> In any case, there are many psychics who claim they can always perform. Sadly none of them can do so under test conditions…**
I agree in that I don’t think psychic powers exist. Many instances can be dubunked precisely as you describe - a psychic claims that it happens under such-and-such circumstances, is tested, and nothing is found.
But I don’t think ‘replicate the conditions’ is that easy. What if one in a hundred people reappears as a ghost for 10 minutes at a time determined by volcanic eruptions on Io? It’s a stupid example, but I’m there’ve been examples that obscure in physics, and until a Mendeleev or Einstein has come along and seen the pattern no-one’s been able to show anything. And if the occurances are rare enough they can (and only reasonably should) be put down to hyperactive imagination, etc.
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/77 "2003-12-01T01:38:16Z")
I predict lekatt will not change his mind.
See?Just a little training and I’m good to go!
putting sign on door walk ins welcome $2 readings…😉
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### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/78 "2003-12-01T01:45:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \*
> \*\*Not so if the quote you gave previously is representative:
> “We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest”
>
> _We did not show_ is not the same as _we could not find_ – is your re-interpretation “not honest and straightforward”? \*\*
Don’t you believe if they had found physical causes for NDEs they would have shown them. Give me a break!
Are they hiding the real research?
You lost, just admit it.
The words chosen for the report were used to lessen the impact of the study. Read the whole study. The good Doctor was evasive in other parts of it, in other words, He didn’t want to believe what the research showed, but had no choice.
More and more research is coming, and it will show the same thing. NDEs are not caused by a dying brain or body. They are proof of consciousness continuing to exist after the death of the body. Which in turn points to a spiritual world.
Love
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### Author:  [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/79 "2003-12-01T02:53:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> **Are you saying you have experience of all the above, or that you can explain how they work, or both?**
I’m saying I can explain how I _think_ they work, which is what it sounded like **Diogenes** was asking in the first place. But yes, I have had experiences with some of those phenomena. Although I suspect the spoon bending trick is exactly that - a trick; as I sit here eating, I find it quite easy to bend my fork. If you’ve noticed, spoon-benders tend to rub the utensil which generates heat and might soften the metal somewhat.
> [@](#):
>
> Why do you believe this? What evidence do you have?
> In the last hundred years, science has provided flight, split the atom, discovered drugs like penicillin, allowed us to visit the Moon, created the Internet and is well on the way to cracking our genetic code.
> Why does it take so long to discover psychic powers?
No evidence. Just a hunch. Comes from growing up with both science and spirituality, when I developed the belief that the 2 might be merged someday. And I could turn around and ask why it took us 2500 years to develop spaceflight, since Greeks were gazing at the sky at least that long ago.
> [@](#):
>
> Let me get this straight. **You believe that people can send their consciousness millions of miles through space, simply because they tell you they can?
> You know there is no extraterrestrial life in the solar system, just because they say so?**
> Do you not feel even the tiniest urge to check their statements?
> How about they predict what a NASA probe will find?
> How do you know they are not quacks?
No, I believe that people can send their consciousness millions of miles through space as a logical extension of the observation that I myself have sent mine across the room. Granted, there is a difference between 10 feet and several million miles, but if consciousness can project any distance then why not a great distance?
As for the question of life in the solar system, IIRC these experiments were done at a time when a lot of people believed in Martians etc., and back then a quack would be likely to say “I went to Mars and saw little green men.” I should clarify that I don’t mean there is _no_ other life whatsoever in the solar system (especially since alleged fossil microbes have been found on Mars, in adition to the possibility of life under Europa’s icy surface or in Jupiter’s cloud deck) just that they didn’t find any. Actually I would be happy if NASA discovers extraterrestrial life - anywhere.
> [@](#):
>
> Well you seem pretty confident that Invisible Purple Unicorns don’t exist. Suppose Dr. Robert Monroe himself told you they did. Would you believe him - just because he said so?
> If there is a massive history of evidence, including successful predictions such as eclipses, on one side of an argument, and the other side consists of saying that something will turn up in the next thousand years, there is **not** a good reason to treat both sides equally.
If Dr. Monroe told me IPUs exist I would be highly doubtful. I don’t need to believe in IPUs and I will not believe in them without proof. Souls are a necessary part of my belief system and astral projection logically follows from my belief system; neither is the case for IPUs. Actually, there are phenomena that I am skeptical of - for instance, the whole “demonic possession” thing and its more modernized form which psychologists refer to as “spirit attachment”. If Dr. Monroe were to advocate a belief in spirit attachment, then I would put a lot less faith in what he has to say.
And I also don’t see what eclipses have to do with anything. I certainly do not disagree with the mainstream explanation of eclipses and how to predict when they will happen. :rolleyes: Of course our knowledge will advance in the next thousand years (assuming we don’t do anything stupid like blow ourselves up with nukes) but my stnace is not based strictly on the thousand years thing.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/80 "2003-12-01T03:27:47Z")
I have an Invisible Pink Unicorn in my garage. He takes regular trips to Jupiter and brings back delicious chocolate chip cookies. With nuts.
Prove me wrong.
Love
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