# Can You Develop P{sychic Abilities By Training?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 28, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771 "2003-11-28T20:49:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/141 "2003-12-04T11:11:31Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> **IWLN** , let me turn around and put the same scrutiny in reverse. You claim that hearing your family discuss the past has caused you to have vivid detailed false memories of the time period in question. You claim that from a few words you gleaned detailed imagery of the place and what it would be like to actually have been there. I find that a stretch of credibility. It is actually easier for me to believe that you were actually floating around in spirit before you were born.
I’d just like to look at this point (though I agree with you that IWLN should certainly consider whether he has a ‘gift’ - a separate thread in GD perhaps, so IWLN can guess numbers or cards?).
We know that our parents talk about our childhood, and often repeat stories to different visitors. As you say, young children can remember things (though not always very accurately).
So it is well within our experience to say that children could indeed have memories based on later parental stories. (You can say that the details wouldn’t be there, but that can depend on your parent’s love of gossip!)
However your alternative explanation has no evidence or experience to support it.
So Occam’s razor applies…
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### Author:  [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/142 "2003-12-04T11:33:37Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \*
> Let me turn around and put the same scrutiny in reverse. You claim that hearing your family discuss the past has caused you to have vivid detailed false memories of the time period in question. You claim that from a few words you gleaned detailed imagery of the place and what it would be like to actually have been there. I find that a stretch of credibility. It is actually easier for me to believe that you were actually floating around in spirit before you were born.
That’s fair. For the record though, I don’t strongly dis-believe any of this anymore than I believe it. My family was always very verbal, with lot’s of “remember when’s”, when I was growing up.
Although there weren’t any pictures, I would assume the descriptions were very good. We moved to a new home when I was born.
> [@](#):
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> As for the year or so _after_, there is only one explanation that comes to my mind: you really were there and you actually remember some of it. For that matter, hell I remember the place my mother and I stayed during my first 2 weeks of life. I remembered enough to sketch the room’s floor plan for cryin’ out loud. Doesn’t strike me as a paranormal claim. Scientific studies have shown that very young children have excellent memory. Remembering a place that you’ve actually been to is not an outrageous or ridiculous claim and needs no alternate explanation. Why you make one up is beyond me.
I don’t think assuming that my memories come from another source other than personal experience is making up some sort of explanation. I don’t believe long term memory goes back that far. At least I know it doesn’t for most people. I doubt it does for me, but don’t know. My memories from the first 9 months or so of my life came in the form of repetitive dreams when I was about 10 and when I described where I was, my mom told me that was my room when I was a newborn, but we didn’t live there long. The skeptic in me could almost admit that some part of me remembered where I once lived, but to have any memory of before I was born seems pretty ridiculous.
> [@](#):
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> You also claim to be such a good guesser that you can predict number games and card games. On what basis do you claim that you do _not_ have a “gift”? Do you use an exact system that you have learned/developed, or is it just an automatic understanding of the laws of chance? Have you always had the ability to do without even a second thought what (for example) card counters spend a lot of time practicing and perfecting?
No system. It’s just a gut response. I’ve always been good at it. I have a stange fascination for numbers, their combinations, the odd coincidences of them. I really like numbers. That sounds weird, but it’s true.
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> For that matter, how do I know that you really can make any kind of accurate guess? Allow me to propose an experiment. Based on your claimed “good guesser” ability, can you tell me the year I am remembering? I have been careful not to reveal my exact age on this board and there is a good reason for that, but if you can guess in 3 tries the year I am remembering (the year before I was born) I will tell you if you are right or wrong. If you are right, I will tell you why I have not revealed my age and ask how you came to the correct answer.
I’m not the one who says I can do this, but sure, why not. You were conceived in 1980, but something is telling me you were also conceived in 1960. So you’re either a 22 year old man or would have been an almost 43 year old women. I’m not going to go for a third try, because I don’t have any other gut feelings. I’ve never played this game remote before and since I don’t believe in it, I’m not counting on any success. Hmmm…What a weird answer.☹
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> And you claim that you have flying dreams. A lot of people have flying dreams. I’ve had a few myself. Is it even possible to show that yours are mere flying dreams, and not actual astral projections?
Big difference between flying dreams and the feeling that you are “floating” somewhere else. And to be able to _will_ those dreams to happen is unusual. But still, I believe they were just products of my inquisitive mind.
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> What makes me wonder is why a lot of people attempt to debunk the entire set of claims that they label “paranormal”. After all, if one of these claims is proven wrong, it doesn’t automatically make all the others wrong. Sure there are a lot of charlatans and frauds gazing into crystal balls and playing phone psychic. But just because Madame Zebrafish has no talent for extrasensory perception doesn’t mean that extraterrestrials are not visiting our planet. This kind of across the board dismissal seems illogical.
I wasn’t trying to debunk anything. As I said before, I don’t believe it’s true, but I don’t believe it’s necessarily false, either. I can only have any real certainty about myself. I am only familiar with some of the more famous anecdotal information and it just seems that these people always have multiple abilities and are pretty far out there.
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> Now from where I stand, you come in and tell me you’ve experienced some of the same things I have, and in spite of firsthand experience with it you dismiss it as phoney and tell me it’s possible that I’m gullible for believing in it. Given the choice between 1.) you’re wrong and 2.) I’m gullible, I’m choosing what’s behind door #1 every time.
Okay, stop and read what I really said. Below is my quote.
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> The answer could be that you’re more gullible or that you’re more open, “tuned in”.
You automatically only heard gullible. There is a big difference between being mistaken and being a phoney. I don’t believe you are. I’m sorry I offended you. I didn’t intend to.
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> But you say you are not a die hard skeptic. Is it true that you are skeptical, but still open minded enough to concede these things if they are shown to exist? But by your own admission, you have experienced them yourself and you don’t believe! If the memories and events themselves will not convince you, then nothing I say is going to convince you. I am an anonymous internet poster. For all you know, I might not even be a real person. At the moment, the most credibility I could have is corroborating with another anonymous poster under the supervision of the board’s moderators.
I have chose a reasonable explanation for most things that happened to me. My choice. I have had one “event” that took the “die hard” out of my skeptic and that’s pretty much the limit before I willingly give myself the “delusional” title. Even if these things were real “gifts”, in all honesty I wouldn’t want them. Good luck on the experiment. I do love finding out impossible things are possible. I just prefer it if someone else does the finding out.
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### Author:  [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/143 "2003-12-04T11:40:03Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> I’d just like to look at this point (though I agree with you that IWLN should certainly consider whether he has a ‘gift’ - a separate thread in GD perhaps, so IWLN can guess numbers or cards?).
That would be a big NO on that one. And he is a she.
> [@](#):
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> However your alternative explanation has no evidence or experience to support it.
> So Occam’s razor applies…
I fought kicking and screaming every step of the way, when **Priceguy** was insisting I use the Razor on my “God event”, I never could. But I embrace the Razor completely for anything else that happens to me. Oh and **Glee** , I’m pretty sure I know three of the things that are on your desk.😃
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/144 "2003-12-04T11:55:01Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> That would be a big NO on that one. And he is a she.
Sorry, miss. :o
Why **not** see if you have a ‘gift’?
I can easily set up another GD thread, agree conditions with you and you can test yourself.
Cityboy916 made a claim, and is prepared to back it up. How about you? 🙂
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> Oh and **Glee** , I’m pretty sure I know three of the things that are on your desk.😃
9 more objects to go then!
Do post in my GD thread, especially saying which is the chosen object.
(I don’t know whether you should put your knowledge down to paranormal powers - that’s your decision.)
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/145 "2003-12-04T12:24:15Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by glee \*
> **Yes, scientists only had theories about electromagnetism centuries ago, but they were based on observations. Newton wondered why an apple fell. Edison knew lightning existed.
> You offer a theory of parallel dimensions which leak very slightly into our Universe - on what observations is that based?**
Why else does the question of paranormality even exist if not for occurences unexplained? An activity that actually occurs and defies known laws, but without a known characterized evidence. Gravity is still such, we know it exists as a force but not why, nor its actual substance.
Some Quanta exhibit a sudden change in trajectory for, as of yet, unseen and unknown reason or deflection. The Theory is that it is interference from an infinite number of parallel universes and timelines. The Quanta amy have interaction and dependence upon multidimensional dissonance.
> [@](#):
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> \*\*Why do you think paranormal powers exist?
>
> Cityboy916 is having a go at a practical demonstration in Great Debates.
> s there anything paranormal you can do? \*\*
I don’t do paranormal, it does me.
Much of my mystical experience has been Synchronistic (Synchronicity) in its characteristics.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/146 "2003-12-04T13:00:15Z")
What is the one possibility that would in reality allow us to see the future…true Premonition?
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/147 "2003-12-04T13:01:30Z")
can you guess?
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/148 "2003-12-04T14:42:30Z")
Fortune cookies?
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/149 "2003-12-04T15:59:49Z")
Time travel.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/150 "2003-12-04T16:01:26Z")
Absolute, definitive proof of Psychic ability!
Every lottery winner is a Psychic, demonstrable by his/her predicted winning numbers- The winning ticket. There are thousands, maybe even millions, of instances of precognition in proof, through lottery winners everyday. Every lottery winner very literally had foreknowledge and precognition of a future occurence.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/151 "2003-12-04T16:40:19Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> Absolute, definitive proof of Psychic ability! …Every lottery winner very literally had foreknowledge and precognition of a future occurence.
How do you separate those winners from the ones that just made a lucky guess?
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/152 "2003-12-04T18:05:35Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> \*\*Absolute, definitive proof of Psychic ability!
> Every lottery winner is a Psychic, demonstrable by his/her predicted winning numbers- The winning ticket. There are thousands, maybe even millions, of instances of precognition in proof, through lottery winners everyday. Every lottery winner very literally had foreknowledge and precognition of a future occurence. \*\*
Are you trying to be funny or obtuse?
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### Author:  [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/153 "2003-12-04T19:15:00Z")
I let the machine pick. I’d hate for anyone to say I had an unfair advantage.😃 Wait, don’t most people that win just have random numbers chosen by the machine? Shoot, another psychic theory down the drain.
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### Author:  [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/154 "2003-12-04T20:25:32Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> \*\*I have a stange fascination for numbers, their combinations, the odd coincidences of them. I really like numbers. That sounds weird, but it’s true. \*\*
Me too.
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> \*\*I’m not the one who says I can do this, but sure, why not. You were conceived in 1980, but something is telling me you were also conceived in 1960. So you’re either a 22 year old man or would have been an almost 43 year old women. I’m not going to go for a third try, because I don’t have any other gut feelings.
> \*\*
I don’t know how you did that, but you nailed it. I was conceived in the summer of 1980 and born in May 1981. I hesitated to post my real age on this board because I have never identified with people my own age, in fact I am young for my generation (dad’s 60, sis is 35, one cousin is 33) and I wanted to interact with others without coloring their perceptions with a big glaring 22. But, fair is fair so here it is for the world to see. 🙂
Now what exactly do you mean also conceived in 1960 - are you saying I lived once, died, and came back? Please get back to me on this one as soon as you can and let me know if that is what you mean to imply!
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> \*\*I have chose a reasonable explanation for most things that happened to me. My choice. I have had one “event” that took the “die hard” out of my skeptic… \*\*
It would seem to me that this makes two “events”.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/155 "2003-12-04T23:06:26Z")
> [@](#):
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> _Originally posted by glee_
> Yes, scientists only had theories about electromagnetism centuries ago, but they were based on observations. Newton wondered why an apple fell. Edison knew lightning existed.
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> Why else does the question of paranormality even exist if not for occurences unexplained? An activity that actually occurs and defies known laws, but without a known characterized evidence. Gravity is still such, we know it exists as a force but not why, nor its actual substance.
What activity ‘actually occurs’ and defies known laws? Have you got any examples? 😕
Gravity is part of science. We know it exists; we can make predictions years ahead of planetary movements under gravity, as shown by eclipses.
We don’t know why gravity exists. Does this bother you? Why does light illuminate? Why does oxygen react so much? What is the meaning of these questions?
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by devilsknew \*
> Some Quanta exhibit a sudden change in trajectory for, as of yet, unseen and unknown reason or deflection. The Theory is that it is interference from an infinite number of parallel universes and timelines. The Quanta amy have interaction and dependence upon multidimensional dissonance.
Do you mean Brownian Motion?
Whose theory is it?
What is multidimensional dissonance, and how do you know it exists?
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### Author:  [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/156 "2003-12-05T00:35:19Z")
**cityboy916**
As I see it, I have three options here. The first is to go buy a new computer and come back under a new user name, eradicating IWLN from the face of the earth forever, try to answer you honestly or lie like my life depends on it. I’ll get back to you late tonight after I get done pricing new computers.:smack:
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### Author:  [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/157 "2003-12-05T04:13:28Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> \*\ ***cityboy916**
>
> As I see it, I have three options here. The first is to go buy a new computer and come back under a new user name, eradicating IWLN from the face of the earth forever, try to answer you honestly or lie like my life depends on it. I’ll get back to you late tonight after I get done pricing new computers.:smack: \*\*
My bad. It didn’t occur to me until a few hours after I posted (that’s how dense I am :smack: ) that I should have worded that differently or better yet, not posted it at all.
Suffice it to say you were so right-on that I replied in the haste of the moment, caught up in my amazement. :o :o :o
FTR, there’s no reason to lie. I’m not sure what is so embarassing but if it’s something you don’t want published on the SDMB, feel free to send me an email. Other than that, don’t sweat it.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/158 "2003-12-05T07:43:28Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Musicat \*
> \*\*How do you separate those winners from the ones that just made a lucky guess? \*\*
“Lucky guess” is extraneous and only a lingual and anthropomorphic characterization of the reality of the precognition of a future ocurrence in time. Precognition doesn’t require intent.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/159 "2003-12-05T07:46:23Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \*
> \*\*Are you trying to be funny or obtuse? \*\*
I am trying to be neither.
It is inpenetrable and solid logic.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-develop-p-sychic-abilities-by-training/215771/160 "2003-12-05T08:11:16Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by IWLN \*
> \*\*I let the machine pick. I’d hate for anyone to say I had an unfair advantage.😃 Wait, don’t most people that win just have random numbers chosen by the machine? Shoot, another psychic theory down the drain. \*\*
I am, of course, talking about human chosen winning numbers. And up until about 20 yrs. ago there was no auto-comp. choice. I certainly don’t know the statistics, for self chosen versus computer chosen winners. I certainly don’t think _most_ people use the computer, probably about 50/50 I’d guess. Regardless, human or machine, it demonstrates precognition of a future event. A machine wouldn’t be exempt from a precognition or “arrival” at a prediction of a future ocurrence, it simply demonstrates that this is a natural law or force that exempts nothing, just like gravity.
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